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Talk:1988 Giro d'Italia

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Featured article1988 Giro d'Italia is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
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DateProcessResult
September 25, 2012Good article nomineeListed
March 14, 2013Peer reviewNot reviewed
July 20, 2013Peer reviewReviewed
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June 21, 2014Featured article candidatePromoted
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Latest comment: 13 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Stage types

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Latest comment: 12 years ago8 comments2 people in discussion

"The 1988 edition of the Giro began with a 9 km (5.6 mi) individual time trial. The route contained only seven stages that were officially deemed mountain stages, but several of the four medium mountain stages contained selective climbs. The Giro had four time trials, three of which were individual and one a team event. Six stages were classified as flat." (emphasis mine)

I think the word 'officially' is too strong here. The Giro does not classify the stages in the same way as the Tour for the points classification. I just found a source for the stage types in the 2012 Giro, affecting the time limits, that did not correspond to the commonly stated stage types. It may be really hard to find out if there was such a designation in the rules in 1988. The inclusion can still be justified by referring to third sources that gave stage types, but those are not official. However, the current sources do not give any stage types...--EdgeNavidad (Talk · Contribs) 20:01, 29 June 2012 (UTC)Reply

I took out the 'officially' that you brought up. Would it be best if I put "stage with mountains" in for the stages that had mountains since none of my sources classify the stages (like what you did in your 1903 Tour article)?ThurstAsh13 (Malk + Montributions) 03:49, 3 July 2012 (UTC)Reply
I changed the stage types to the more general ones since I can't find a source that really classifies the stages, in terms of flat, intermediate, and mountain. ThurstAsh13 (Malk + Montributions) 16:47, 4 July 2012 (UTC)Reply
In my opinion, it is an improvement, but it is not yet completely perfect. (I might focus on these details too much, I am sorry.) How do you decide that stage 2 was a hilly stage? If you followed a source, it's ok, but I can't find the source in this article. If you classified them yourself, I wonder how you did it.
Some stages had climbs that were used in the mountains classification. I could understand a division (of the non-time trial stages) into flat stages and mountain stages, depending on whether or not the stage included such a climb. This is a completely objective way. But I can't see how to objectively define a 'hilly stage'. Well, you could define a hilly stage as a stage that includes climbs for the mountain classification, but does not include climbs of the highest category, but that seems a bit contrived...--EdgeNavidad (Talk · Contribs) 13:39, 5 July 2012 (UTC)Reply
I got "intermediate" or "medium mountain stage" classification from the other Giro and Tour pages, while I saw the "hilly" on an earlier article so I switched it to hilly since you brought up that I didn't have a course source that directly classified the stages as such. I was considering dividing them into just mountainous and flat stages. Here's my reasoning for determining stage 2 as "hilly," "intermediate," or a "medium-mountain stage."
Here's stage 2's profile: [1]. Here's a similar stage profile from this year's Tour which was deemed a medium mountain stage: [2]. I think you and I can tell that those two stages are not in the same category as this: [3] or [4]. Do you see where I'm coming from? Stage 2 isn't flat but it isn't quite the mountainous that we associate with the high mountains; so I went with the in between I've seen in other articles, the intermediate or "medium mountain stages," or "hilly" for a very broad description of it. I have the description of the hilly stages as stages with categorized climbs consisting of the lesser ranking climbs, which I think is accurate.
Thoughts? If you don't agree, or the GA reviewer (if I ever get one, lololol) doesn't, I could just use your idea of shifting all the now "hilly" stages to ones with mountains. If you think its in my best interest to just take your advice just say so. ThurstAsh13 (Malk + Montributions) 02:55, 6 July 2012 (UTC)Reply
I can understand why you would say it is hilly. In casual conversation, I would not object at all, and if this term is used in the prose it is also ok. But for the stage table it is different. Another editor might add another category, making it flat-hilly-hillier-mountain. An encyclopedia should not include editor's opinion, and it is your opinion that these stages are classified the way you did. I would suggest using four or five categories of stages:
1. Individual time trials (easy to define, stages 1, 18 and 21b)
2. Team time trials (easy to define, stage 4b)
3. Mountain stages (stages that include a climb of the first category or higher: 6, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 19) (see [5])
4. Hilly stages (stages that include climbs of other categories but are not mountain stages: 2, 3, 5, 7, 8, 10, 17)
5. Flat stages (all other stages: 4a, 9, 11, 20, 21a)
This is the same as your list, only stages 3, 8 and 17 move from the 'flat' category to the 'hilly'. Categories 4 and 5 could be combined, I don't know what is best. If you add a note explaining that this is the way the types are designated, there is much less subjectivity. It would certainly please me if I were the reviewer. My tour-giro-vuelta reference is probably not useful for in this article, but I am pretty sure that the memoire du cyclisme site gives the same information; I am however not a member so I can not verify this. --EdgeNavidad (Talk · Contribs) 16:41, 6 July 2012 (UTC)Reply
My original basis for the stage classifications was from this page of the tour-giro-vuelta the image icons on the right side of the page. So let me get this straight: if I were to keep my current layout, but switch stages 3, 8, and 17 to hilly, then it would be fine (if you count the little blurb I put before the stage table as the note or explanation)? If not, could you explain what you mean by adding a note?
That would almost be enough, but the little blurb is not detailed enough (for my standards at least). I would suggest something like "The Giro had four time trials, three of which were individual and one a team event. Of the other stages, seven stages included high-category climbs, seven stages included only lower-category climbs, and the remaining five stages included no categorized climbs." (I am sure you could improve on my English.) In this way you explain how the stages are categorized. By the way: if the review starts for this article, feel free to notify me, I'll see what I can do.--17:40, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
I changed the description a little, and tried to add my own "pizazz" to it. I'll let you know when the review process starts, but I don't see it happening anytime soon haha. ThurstAsh13 (Malk + Montributions) 19:53, 6 July 2012 (UTC)Reply
As for the memoire du cyclisme, I can never get in to the site since a pop up confronts me for a password or username. I don't know how you become a member, but I'm going to look into finding a dummy account so I access it for once. ThurstAsh13 (Malk + Montributions) 17:08, 6 July 2012 (UTC)Reply

Young rider classification eligibility

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Latest comment: 11 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

"The fourth jersey represented the young rider classification, marked by a white jersey. This was decided the same way as the general classification, but only riders born after 1 January 1964 were eligible." This can not be true, as the winner Stefano Tomasini was born in 1963. But even more dramatic: third-placed in that classification was Helmut Wechselberger, born in 1953, so he was 35 years old in 1988. (And this is not a mistake in his bio, I checked several sources.) The explanation must be that Wechselberger was a neo-prof, only starting to ride professionally in 1987. --EdgeNavidad (Talk · Contribs) 19:20, 16 April 2013 (UTC)Reply

Noted and changed. I should've realized that when on the ELM source it said neo-pro.... Disc Wheel (Malk + Montributions) 20:36, 18 April 2013 (UTC)Reply
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Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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