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To do
editFinishing order and non-finishers using data from [1] --TBM10 (talk) 22:49, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
- I'd like to chnge the source for the non finishers to Chris Simpson's booklet, Grand Nationals of the 80s. the reason behind this is simply that he has correctly stated that Kersil pulled up at fence 27 and that Mithras, Memberson and Rausal were all hampered and pulled up at the 28th fence. The BBC Television coverage shows Chris to be correct in all four cases and the Racing post [the current source] to be wrong. Captainbeecher (talk) 19:20, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
Preparing Leading contenders
editpreparing pen pics and sources for Dixton House, Durham Edition, Bonanza Boy, The Thinker and West Tip Captainbeecher (talk) 19:07, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Fatalities
editI have added some greater detail surrounding the two equine fatalities during this race. They led to probably the most significant changes to the course, so I think its worth including as much information as possible. I've watched the video (now added to this article) of the post-race analysis and can see Brown Trix rolled into the brook after landing on his back; I believe his body had been pulled out but not removed in time for the second circuit. Also, I have found a photo showing the vet putting Seeandem down under a green tarpaulin - the same tarpaulin we see covering his body on the second circuit. --TBM10 (talk) 21:30, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- Some additional stuff re Brown Trix: Link here Perhaps worth including in the article Julian Wilson's commentary about the field being "forced to the right to avoid a dead horse". --TBM10 (talk) 21:42, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- I think the fatalities section would sit well as part of a media and aftermath section as and when this is created. this would also allow space to expand on the criticisms of the comments made in running by Julian Wilson and post race by Richard Pitman, the fact that the fatalities were debated in the house of commons and later criticisms of David Pitcher's credential to have been riding in the race in the first place, which were made by Peter Scudamore.Captainbeecher (talk) 19:54, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- Agreed on how to format and incorporate the details and debate about the fatalities. Looking back at the footage, when the runners jumped Becher's second time and Brown Trix was down at the side of the course, was he already dead? Or did he indeed get back up as Pitman claimed in the post-race analysis, only to be put down later when they diagnosed a broken shoulder? If so my wording of the incident in this article will need clarifying... --TBM10 (talk) 20:29, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- The official record of the horse's death says destroyed, which means he was shot due to his broken shoulder. There are other aspects of what happened in the five minutes between the falls and the runners returning that can help piece it together. The crew only have time to tie ropes around one horse to remove it from the course before the runners return. They deal with Brown Trix, which would suggest the horse was in danger of drowning, otherwise if the horse is uninjured and in no danger of drowning they will leave him where he is for the short term and deal with getting Seeandem off the course. However David Pitcher enters the brook as he fears the horse is drowning. As they tie the ropes to Brown Trix, Seeandem is put down and covered by the vet. Brown Trix is then lifted out of the Brook. if he is dead there is no way the course staff will leave him where they do as it means dead horses on both sides of the course. He is also already roped so it will take a matter of seconds to drag the body across the course to the same side as the already dead Seeandem and get the tarp over both bodies. Instead they untie Brown Trix and leave him at the other end of the course. I can only conclude this is on vet's instructions because the horse is alive but needs to be checked over for injuries and the vet won't have time before the runners return. Once the runner pass the vet checks the injury, confirms it to be a fracture and destroys the horse. Either way, the fact the horse fell into the Brook at all is what leads to Toby Balding leading the call to have it filled in. Both possibilities can be worded into the article when the wider implications of the race commentary and media coverage is expanded on. 81.104.14.109 (talk) 23:15, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
- Having just watched the footage of the race itself, now available on YouTube, I cannot hear Wilson referring to the runners "avoiding a dead horse". [2] --TBM10 (talk) 13:28, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
- Agreed. The whole race is on Youtube and there's no such comment included. 90.194.125.213 (talk) 00:24, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
- Having just watched the footage of the race itself, now available on YouTube, I cannot hear Wilson referring to the runners "avoiding a dead horse". [2] --TBM10 (talk) 13:28, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
- The official record of the horse's death says destroyed, which means he was shot due to his broken shoulder. There are other aspects of what happened in the five minutes between the falls and the runners returning that can help piece it together. The crew only have time to tie ropes around one horse to remove it from the course before the runners return. They deal with Brown Trix, which would suggest the horse was in danger of drowning, otherwise if the horse is uninjured and in no danger of drowning they will leave him where he is for the short term and deal with getting Seeandem off the course. However David Pitcher enters the brook as he fears the horse is drowning. As they tie the ropes to Brown Trix, Seeandem is put down and covered by the vet. Brown Trix is then lifted out of the Brook. if he is dead there is no way the course staff will leave him where they do as it means dead horses on both sides of the course. He is also already roped so it will take a matter of seconds to drag the body across the course to the same side as the already dead Seeandem and get the tarp over both bodies. Instead they untie Brown Trix and leave him at the other end of the course. I can only conclude this is on vet's instructions because the horse is alive but needs to be checked over for injuries and the vet won't have time before the runners return. Once the runner pass the vet checks the injury, confirms it to be a fracture and destroys the horse. Either way, the fact the horse fell into the Brook at all is what leads to Toby Balding leading the call to have it filled in. Both possibilities can be worded into the article when the wider implications of the race commentary and media coverage is expanded on. 81.104.14.109 (talk) 23:15, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
- Agreed on how to format and incorporate the details and debate about the fatalities. Looking back at the footage, when the runners jumped Becher's second time and Brown Trix was down at the side of the course, was he already dead? Or did he indeed get back up as Pitman claimed in the post-race analysis, only to be put down later when they diagnosed a broken shoulder? If so my wording of the incident in this article will need clarifying... --TBM10 (talk) 20:29, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- I think the fatalities section would sit well as part of a media and aftermath section as and when this is created. this would also allow space to expand on the criticisms of the comments made in running by Julian Wilson and post race by Richard Pitman, the fact that the fatalities were debated in the house of commons and later criticisms of David Pitcher's credential to have been riding in the race in the first place, which were made by Peter Scudamore.Captainbeecher (talk) 19:54, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- There are two versions of the race on YouTube, the BBC removed the commentary for use on the Sports Personality of the year show. The original clearly contains Wilson's comments. 'They are being forced to the right to avoid a dead horse' 89.33.15.88 (talk) 12:37, 8 November 2023 (UTC)