Talk:1997 New Mexico's 3rd congressional district special election

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:59, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that the Green Party candidate received over 15% of the vote in a 1997 congressional special election in New Mexico? Source: Results page, [1]
  • ALT1:... that the winner of a 1997 congressional special election refused to release his tax returns? Source: "Among the major party candidates for the vacant 3rd Congressional District seat, Democrat Eric Serna and Green Party nominee Carol Miller have released all or parts of their tax returns but Republican nominee Bill Redmond says he won't make his tax forms public." [2] (source behind subscription wall)

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/VikkiKitty
• Comment: Noting that I pulled all of the sources from Newsbank, which requires a subscription to use (I used my local library to access it). The ALT1 is locked behind a subscription source, while the main hook is not. Also noting that this was originally a 5x expansion of a stub article, but when the history merged happened, most of that history was removed by the administrator-- I listed expanded above, but the article would also qualify under the "New" category.

5x expanded by Nomader (talk). Self-nominated at 14:58, 24 June 2020 (UTC).

• General eligibility:

• New enough:
• Long enough:
• Other problems: - "Redmond would be ousted in the 1998 midterms by future United States Senator Tom Udall who won by a sizeable margin." appears in the lead without a citation and then does not appear in the body text. Please either cite it in the lead or copy it into the body text somewhere and cite it there.

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting: - I'm not convinced that either hook is particularly interesting, but the second one I feel is only interesting because it's a parallel to Trump, which is outside context that many readers are going to miss. Consider scouring the article for more interesting facts. Maybe turn this into a hook: "Republicans and the Greens announced their intentions to send observers to make sure election laws were being followed at polling places, while Serna announced that he was requesting the U.S. Department of Justice to monitor Republican observers".

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Ping me once the changes are made. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 18:54, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

@The Squirrel Conspiracy: Hmm, completely fair points. I've listed some new ALTS below here (also I've added in sources about the Udall victory at the end of the results section). Nomader (talk) 19:16, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

• ALT2: ... that a large sign announcing which person would be the Democratic nominee for a New Mexico special election appeared three hours before the meeting selecting him had even started? Source: "A large sign declaring Serna as the Democratic candidate for Congress appeared in front of the hotel where the meeting was held about 10 a.m. Saturday, about three hours before committee members began their meeting." [3] (subscription required)
• ALT3: ... that after the Republican and Green candidates planned to send election observers to polling places in a New Mexico special election, supporters of the Democratic nominee asked the Department of Justice to monitor Republican observers? Source: Republican candidate Bill Redmond and Green Party candidate Carol Miller said last weekend that they plan to send observers to polling places Tuesday to make sure election laws are followed. Supporters of Democratic candidate Eric Serna countered by announcing they would ask the U.S. Department of Justice to monitor the Republican observers." [4] (subscription required)
• ALT4: ... that after a New Mexico special election in 1997, none of the three U.S. House seats in New Mexico were controlled by Democrats? Source: "Stunned Democrats members of the state's majority party, now with none of the state's three U.S. House seats were left to figure out how they had lost another major race in New Mexico." [5] (subscription required)

Thanks for the ping. The article is now good to go. I've struck ALT4 as well as the original hooks as not interesting. I've also trimmed down ALT2 and ALT3, with the results below:

• ALT2a: ... that a large sign announcing the winner of the Democratic nomination for a New Mexico special election appeared three hours before the meeting to select him had started?
• ALT3a: ... that supporters of the Democratic candidate in a New Mexico special election asked the Department of Justice to monitor the election observers that the Republican candidate planned to send?

Sincerely, The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 20:25, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Prefer both of your alts here, thanks for the edits! Nomader (talk) 21:07, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Photographs of candidates needed

Hey anyone who stumbles on this page! I've looked everywhere, but I can't find any free images of either Eric Serna or Carol Miller. You can see non-free images of Serna here ([6]) and Miller here ([7]). Because both people are still alive, it's not acceptable to upload a non-free image to use here. Nomader (talk) 16:23, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:1997 New Mexico's 3rd congressional district special election/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Hog Farm (talk · contribs) 21:18, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Lead

• Add a short description
  • Added to the second paragraph.
• Are free images for Serna or Miller available?
  • Unfortunately, no. I've looked honestly everywhere for them. There's a solid number of non-free images that are available, but because both people are still alive, I don't think that fair use would apply here.
• I find it extremely odd that the election date is never explicitly mentioned in the body, just in the lead.
  • I added it to the body (and also changed the reference here-- the original said it was "likely" he would select that date, added the news bulletin where he set it).
• "and the negative perception of Eric Serna as a Democratic candidate" - I don't like this phrasing. It can be read as Serna had a negative perception because he was a Democrat, which doesn't seem to be right, as this was a blue district.
  • Fixed.
• The lead doesn't provide a good summary of the article. The candidate selection process and the campaign drama aren't really mentioned at all in the lead
  • Added it in here, hopefully should be enough.

Background

• "Democratic Congressman Bill Richardson had held New Mexico's 3rd congressional district since it was created from the 1980 census" - Link 1980 United States Census. Also, from isn't really the best word. Maybe clarify that it was from redistricting?
  • I added a lot here to it, think it clarifies it now.
• Per MOS:PERCENT, you need to spell out percent, not use the %.
  • Changed.
• "The heavily Democratic-3rd district held a large" - Feels like a weird hyphen to me.
  • Removed.
• Link the Democrats and Republicans. Non-US readers may not be familiar with the US part system.
  • Linked to them.
• Link Lieutenant Governor of New Mexico
  • Linked to it.
• Link Roberto Mondragón at the first mention, not at the later one
  • Fixed it.
• "At the state level, the Green Party of New Mexico had run a strong third party campaign in the 1994 New Mexico gubernatorial election, where Lieutenant Governor Roberto Mondragón claimed 10% of the vote statewide, and were growing in strength in New Mexico at the time of the special election" - Remove "At the state level", as this is clear, since you're talking only about the Green Party of New Mexico, not the overall Green Party. Also, since Green Party of New Mexico is a singular organization, use "was", not "were"
  • Fixed.
• "New Mexico's state law required the Governor of New Mexico to call for a special election within 10 days of a vacancy in the Congressional delegation." - Not in the source. Confusingly, even though the source appears to be paywalled, I was able to get into this one, but not the others.
  • I wrote this article while I was waiting for approval for a newspapers.com account from the Wikipedia Library and I don't plan on making the same mistake again if I can avoid it, it's even tough for me to login to see these sometimes. Can't speak for the paywall part, but the source is referring to just the second sentence here (which has the direct quote), and not the first one. I've added another source for the first sentence here. Also, if you'd like access to the library I'm using, feel free to message me off of here and I can send over temporary credentials.
• Green Party of New Mexico is overlinked
  • Done
• You need to gloss that GOP = Republicans
  • Done
• Link The Santa Fe New Mexican
  • Done.

• Still responding to these, will add more soon. Nomader (talk) 17:35, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Democratic selection process

• "Santa Fe County Commissioner Javier Gonzales, dropped out" - Lose the comma.
  • Done.
• In the candidates list, mark Maes as dropped out, like you did with the other ones who did so
  • Marked it the same way.
• "Senator Roman Maes announced that he was considering a general election write-in campaign due to disgust with the selection process.[27] Maes eventually decided to drop out altogether instead" - You've already introduced Maes, so you don't need to do that again. In fact, you can probably combine these two sentences
  • Combined them.
• The main paragraph implies that Sosa Jr. thought about running, but didn't, but the list calls him a candidate, implying he did run.
  • It's honestly a bit confusing-- as far as I can tell from sources, he never officially said "I'm running", but the chairman said people could vote for him, he ended up giving a speech at the committee hearing complaining about early endorsements of Serna, and got 8 votes at the meeting. There's no "Sosa is now running" article I can find anywhere outside the kind of weirdness of him hopping onto the stage here.
• Per MOS:JR, not comma before the Jr. in the names.
  • Fixed.
• We need a citation that Lobato was a candidate.
  • Added a citation.

More to come. Hog Farm _Bacon 16:02, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Republican selection process

• What denomination was Redmond a pastor in?
  • Added a source for it-- his denomination is the Christian Church denomination, which I've wikilinked to in the title of his church.
• Redmond is overlinked
  • Removed extras.
• If Redmond got 70 votes, Carrarro got 33, then who got the other 31?
  • Helpfully, the source doesn't say-- it only specifies for those two candidates.

Green Part nomination

• "Santa Fean city councilman Cris Moore immediately expressed interest in the nomination" - It's not necessary to try to turn Santa Fe into an adjective here, so just use the regular spelling of Fe.
  • Although I think it'd be a boon to the English language, I've made this change.
• The results subheading of this section isn't really long enough to support itself, so just merge it into the rest of the section.
  • Merged it in.

• Will be getting to the general election shortly. Nomader (talk) 17:59, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

General election

• "Before Serna had even secured the nomination, GOP Chairman John Dendahl attacked Eric Serna on ethics-related grounds and for the Democratic nomination process, which was attracting controversy." - The reader already knows who Serna is. We don't need his first name again.
  • Removed the first name.
• "with Redmond's support of the Christian Coalition and Redmond fought back, saying that his values matched those of the district" - This needs rephrased. As it is right now, it's not grammatical, but I'm not sure exactly what's wrong.
  • I just deleted it, I'm really not sure what I was trying to say there-- the next sentence is from the exact same source. I think it's leftover from my original jotted down notes.
• I believe it's "northern New Mexico", not "Northern New Mexico", as the direction adjective is only capitalized if there's a specific formal name of the region
  • It's a semi-formal (at least) name for the region-- "Northern New Mexico" and other places I've seen it referred to in news print all have it capitalized. Added a wikilink here.
• Link Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Santa Fe
  • Done.
• "At a forum in Taos that was aired on cable television, Miller, Serna, Redmond, and Pearlman (the Reform candidate) participated" - We already know that Pearlman is the reform candidate, so the paranthetical isn't necessary
  • Fixed.
• ""I don't even like sushi and I wouldn't be drinking a beer in a bar like that. I like American beer, Corona, really," - I can't access the source for this, but I want to double-check to see if this is right, cause I'm pretty sure Corona ain't an American beer
  • I've temporarily hosted a PDF of the article on Google Drive so you can review this quote in all it's absolute (possibly sarcastic?) beauty. Linked here, once this review is finished I'll be taking it down.
• "Radio attack ads included Republican ads against Serna, saying: "Washington is engulfed in money scandals and corruption.[51] Eric Serna would fit right in"" - Remove the inline in the middle of the quote. It's not necessary, it really looks odd.
  • Done.
• "supported balancing the federal budget within five years, but only Richmond supported a Constitutional Amendment to codify it" - Who's Richmond?
  • That's a very, very unfortunate typo. Fixed.

Ready for the home stretch section, gonna take another break there. Hog Farm _Bacon 18:56, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

• • Coming up on the last section here as well. Nomader (talk) 18:18, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

• FEC needs glossed at the first mention, which is well up in the article.
  • Done.
• Link The Albuquerque Tribune and Albuquerque Journal
  • Done.
• Gloss DNC
  • Done.

References

• All of the newsbank references need the subscription required parameter
  • Should be fixed now.
• The Magleby reference has two issues: Only include his name, not the distinguished professor thing. Also, it needs a page number.
  • Fixed (also removed the duplicate author piece).

That's about it from me, I think. Placing on hold. Hog Farm _Bacon 22:23, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Been a week with no contact from nominator, who isn't really active at the moment, so gonna fail this one. Nominator - use these to improve the article; ping me once these get done and I can try to take another look. Hog Farm _Bacon 17:14, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

• I'm 9 months late, but I've gone through and addressed your comments. Thank you so much for this thorough review, it means the world to me that you took this much time to read through it. Nomader (talk) 18:33, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:1997 New Mexico's 3rd congressional district special election/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Hog Farm (talk · contribs) 02:35, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Will try to get to this weekend. I've got a much longer GA review I've already got in my "to review" queue. Hog Farm _Talk 02:35, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

No rush! I was nine months late responding to your initial comments, so take your time. Nomader (talk) 18:31, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

• "delaying the election date as Johnson was required to follow in state law" - something seems slightly off here from a grammar perspective
  • Split it into two sentences, think it flows much better now.
• Is it worth giving the exact date that Richardson resigned, since that affected the date that the election was held per state law?
  • Added, and also added a source with the exact date of his resignation.
• Link Joe Carraro
  • Added.
• "Redmond had previously been defeated by Bill Richardson in 1996." - I think you can drop the link and just say Richardson, as he's already been introduced in the article
  • Done.
• "The Republican Chairman Dendahl filed an FEC complaint against the state Democratic Party over $40,000 they had spent" - anything specific, or were they just throwing accusations out there?
  • They were just throwing up muck-- the attack line against Serna was that he was corrupt, and anything they could use to add to that hit they were trying to. The source basically says, "Republicans have filed this complaint, Democrats deny it" kind of stuff.
• Redmond's election night watch party was an "out of the way Holiday Inn, while a stunned Serna was at the Eldorado Hotel, a "swanky" location according to The Albuquerque Tribune - seem to be missing a " in here somewhere
  • Added.
• Sourcing looks good
• Image licensing looks okay

That's it for round 2. This one is well on its way to being GA. I'm still surprised to see Corona called an American beer by a politician, but maybe that was after a few of them. Hog Farm _Talk 00:59, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@Hog Farm: Honestly, I'm not sure if the corona line was sarcasm (as in he's joking) or if he was being serious, but either way, I think it illustrates the depths of the absurdity that the election reached-- which is why I'm very happy that quote exists! I think this should address your notes here, let me know if you need anything else from me. Nomader (talk) 00:50, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Some comments

• "The heavily Democratic 3rd district held a large Democratic voter registration advantage, and was widely seen as a safe Democratic seat. The district breakdown was 59 percent Democratic, 29 percent Republican, 2 percent Green, and 9 percent Independent, giving Democrats a wide support base.[2]" This seems to repeat itself quite a bit and at the very least could be expressed without using "Democrat"[s] five times in two sentences.
• " selecting a delegation" This is a bit unclear. Perhaps "selecting convention delegates"
• " as he announced that he had enough support locked in from the 89 Democratic Central Committee members who chose the nominee." perhaps "as he announced that he had enough support from the 89 members to gain the nomination". Or some such. You're repeating yourself.
• "Serna met with Democratic leadership to earn their support in Washington, D.C. and to campaign among the delegation there." This feels like it might be repeating itself too. Presumably he wanted the support of New Mexico's four federal lawmakers, but is "Democratic leadership" the same thing or do we mean the congressional leadership? It could be clearer in either case.
• "A number of Democrats who considered running for the seat chastised Serna and the Democratic Party for its "back room politics" approach to the nomination, while Serna announced the names of 56 of the 83 member central committee that publicly supported him.[22][23] A couple of things. A comma probably should not be used to join two such distantly related topics. The announcement by Serna seems again a duplicate of information we have already gotten, "who" should be used instead of "that", central committee isn't capped whereas it was before (be consistent throughout), and when did 89 become 83?
• I'd make it clear up front that Galanis was a candidate. That doesn't become clear until several sentences after he's first mentioned.
• "the speed at which the nomination was coming forward.[27] Senator Roman Maes" Coming forward should probably be "being decided" or similar, and if Maes is a state senator, which I imagine he was, that should be more clearly stated.
• "former Governor" etc. review MOS:JOBTITLES.

More later.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:58, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

• "Attacks between" Can you have "attacks between"?
• "Democrats lodged an FEC complaint regarding Redmond's missing identification requirements that they alleged he failed to file.[2]" I'm not sure what this means.
• "A last debate, hosted by KNME-TV, took place a day before the primary.[69] " The primary or the general election?
• Did anything else change besides the Democratic candidate between 1997 and 1998, for example the Green candidate or the law re fusion tickets?

That's it. If you give me a ping when you're ready, I'll do a second run-through.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:23, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Reference check

A number of the Newsbank references appear to be unavailable when not logged into a library (or somehow seem to be dead links). I'm doing a spot check of every reference in the article by opening URLs in a private browser -- I've already gone through #8, but will be keeping this section for reference for the remainder of them. Nomader (talk) 14:49, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

• 8: Newsbank works.
• 9: Newsbank works.
• 10: Newsbank works.
• 11: Reference is broken, doesn't lead to anything. Working on finding in Newspapers.com.
• 12: Leads to a login page where my login doesn't work. Working on finding in Newspapers.com
• 13: Leads to a login page where my login doesn't work. Working on finding in Newspapers.com
• 14: Newsbank works.
• 15: Newsbank works.
• 16: Newsbank works.
• 17: Newsbank works.
• 18: Newsbank works.
• 19: Newsbank worked, but the URL had a weird title missing which I hadn't noticed. Switched to Newspapers.com.
• 20: Newsbank works.
• 21: Reference is broken and leads to a dead Newsbank page.
• 22: Leads to a login page where my login doesn't work. Working on finding in Newspapers.com
• 23: Newsbank works.
• 24: Newsbank works.
• 25: Reference is broken, doesn't lead to anything. Working on finding in Newspapers.com.