Talk:2007 BCS computer rankings

Poll size

Some of these polls may release their numbers weekly, even prior to the BCS rankings beginning midway through the season. It may make sense to track these throughout the season then and not just what is used to calculate the BCS portion. Any ideas about this or if it's a good idea or bad idea or should just stick like the 2006 season (which I did after the season) would be helpful. --MECU≈talk 17:41, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

We could always test it out, if it doesn't work we can remove it later (I assume this is timed with the first Coaches poll out today). I think it might be a good idea. --Bobak 16:14, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm torn on this. Sure, it may be encyclopedia to have all the data the computers release but the reason the BCS doesn't come out until October is because the computer-based values are so out of whack early in the season.↔NMajdan•talk 16:33, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I understand what you mean about the numbers being out of whack early in the season, but if there is an explanation that these numbers up to x date don't apply to the BCS, then I don't see any harm in including them. It could actually provide great insight into seeing how polls change during the season. Seancp 16:55, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Are there any copyrights on these computer polls? Corpx 17:29, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

You can't copyright data. The phonebook example applies. MECU≈talk 18:35, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that's a completely accurate analogy. A phone book is a set of facts - names and corresponding assigned numbers presented via a standard index (alphabetically); a human poll is someone's opinion as to a ranking of teams - a computer poll is an extension of that, the result of an algorithm or formula that one particular person believes best represents how teams should be ranked. It's not listing/result that you or I would be able to duplicate independently via direct observation/research. To the point, Jeff Sagarin directly asserts his copyright on his ratings. [1] AUTiger » talk 19:39, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I see your point. But then this would also apply to the AP Poll, as I'm sure the AP asserts a copyright over their poll and the data within it. MECU≈talk 21:08, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I dont think I've ever seen a copyright sign under an AP poll. Corpx 22:01, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, just like anything you as an author create, you can choose to license those rights (if any) that you wish under whatever license or even release into the public domain if you wish. The AP may assert copyright too, but they have historically been in the business of syndicating content, such that it appears in many places; they don't have much incentive at this point for exclusive distribution. However, Jeff Sagarin (and USA Today) does; I'm pretty sure USA Today pays him some amount to be the exclusive (theoretically, there are certainly copyvios of it out there) distributor of his ratings content; love 'em or hate 'em, his ratings drive readers/traffic to the USA Today, which advertisers pay for, etc. etc.. As to the other computer polls, I don't recall seeing advertising on their sites, so they may not care. AUTiger » talk 04:49, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I thought the BCS was paying the poll creators for the usage in the BCS formula. Corpx 05:45, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Mmmmm...I'm not sure what you're getting at. The BCS' contractual arrangement with the poll creators is immaterial. Warner Bros paying JK Rowling to use Harry Potter characters and stories in WB produced movies doesn't make it ok for you or I to make HarryP movies. AUTiger » talk 06:37, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I think the computer owners aren't getting paid. See http://www.masseyratings.com/faq.htm and half-way down where it says "Do I get paid for this?" I'm not really sure how to resolve this. Surely, limiting our usage to only the parts that are in the BCS calculation is a good first step, but then does using any of it matter? How do we answer this short of hiring a lawyer? MECU≈talk 12:59, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm just uncomfortable with copying any list that has a copyright at the bottom. Even the AP poll is copyrighted it seems, because they served a cease and desist to the BCS to stop using it in the BCS formula Corpx 17:11, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Mecu, in the FAQ you reference, Massey actually says "email me if you would like to discuss a formal sponsorship or publication rights." It certainly appears most of the creators believe they have an original work protected under copyright. This probably applies as well to the human poll rankings published by the various mags. I wonder if the summary recorded on these pages could be considered fair use? Of course, I know that's a dirty word to some around here too. AUTiger » talk 18:07, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use though we would have to reduce the amount we use, so like display only the top 15 or something. I still think the phone book analogy applies. But anyways, I still don't see an easy way to solve this. It's certainly important to the topic, including all the polling data, It's not like we're just copy and pasting a table/list of the teams, just the data, as a "historical reference" type. Kinda like baseball cards display stats about a player that the MLB has a copyright notice on their site. Perhaps e-mailing the BCS, AP, USA Today/Coaches Poll, Harris Poll, Computer owners and asking for permission under the GFDL? This seems to me to be not needed though. MECU≈talk 18:25, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

(outdent) Well, I was thinking the summary here is already reduced showing only the ranking of teams, but not displaying the full weekly table with win-loss and votes/points/rating etc. usually included in the original form published by the authors. I had thought about the email angle and the computer poll guys might probably respond favorably (with the exception of Sagarin) - It might be tough to even get a response from the AP, USAToday and Harris. But I doubt any of them are willing to license generally under the GFDL. Sorry, I don't have a good answer for this. AUTiger » talk 18:50, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

The Massey, Sagarin and Wolfe websites don't publish historical data. At least, I couldn't find it on their websites. Does while I agree the information would still be copyrighted, their lack of interest in publishing such data means that our use of it won't affect them as much either. The BCS website just has standard terms of use for MSN/Fox Sports so it was little help either. MECU≈talk 13:11, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Shouldnt we hold ourselves to a higher standard, even if the copyrights may not be enforced hawkishly? Corpx 20:24, 6 August 2007 (UTC)