Talk:2008 Chelopechene explosions

Earthquake

I hope that the person who claimed that the explosion caused the earthquake can go back and find his source, because this is really an interesting claim. It is well accepted that human activity can cause small earthquakes,[1] but typically these are either the result of a very long slow process that changes the mass of a landscape (digging a mine, building a dam) or are directly associated with the site of a huge explosion (like a nuclear bomb). Though I'm not a seismologist and I could have missed much, I've never heard of a case where you set off an explosion and get a real earthquake (i.e. actual shift of geologic plates) somewhere else. It would be interesting if this really happened. It would also be interesting if an underground bunker of secret weapons was destroyed... Wnt (talk) 23:26, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

This seems to be an absurd connection. First off, changes in plate tectonics do not typically occur, as a result of a surface explosion. Your citation, albeit a very interesting one, is not entirely relevant to this situation. In none of the five man-made earthquake situations is there an explosion relating to the possibility of an earthquake. For example, building a dam, mining coal, liquid injection, and etc. are not surface explosions. However, I'd like to commend your creativity. If we could find a source that corroborates the earthquake and explosion then that would be very interesting. Finally, I would have to agree that the coincidence of these events is unlikely. There is the potential here for something more than just two arbitrary events in the same place at the same time. --Edwin Larkin (talk) 16:47, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

I couldn't find a connection between the explosions and the earthquake. But there is a human-made lake near the epicenter of the earthquake. Lake Pancharevo was created by putting a dam in the Iskar River. This earthquake, according to your citation, may have been caused by the weight of the lake on the earth's crust below. --Edwin Larkin (talk) 17:14, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

For context, a 3.2 earthquake packs about the same energy as fifty tons of TNT. If it weren't in a different location I would suggest it had been an explosion at the depot. I suppose it's possible the Chelopechene explosions could have caused the earthquake, given the earthquake's small size, but this claim needs the attention of a geologist. Quicksilvre (talk) 01:52, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Sources

This short article in Bulgarian contains some details about the earthquake, citing the Geophysical Institute of the Bulgarian Academy Of Sciences. The Institute has a website, but it seems that updating it is not among their top priorities. :( --Daggerstab (talk) 21:42, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

I ran that article through translate.google.com and got that the epicenter was 15 km south of Sofia, and "None of the competent authorities do not rent to confirm a link between the earthquake and vzrivovete in store for ammunition near Chelopechene." Really, when you think of the difficulty of translating text that site does a remarkable job, but. Wnt (talk) 22:51, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Oops, my bad - this article cites the Institute, the one above doesn't. --Daggerstab (talk) 06:43, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Speculation as to the causes

I removed the following section. Speculation about causes is non-factual and doesn't belong here. A paragraph saying that the cause has not been determined yet, but that the government has instituted such-and-such an inquiry probably does. But just so you know what people were thinking round here, here they are:

Possible causes

• Lack of sufficient funds to destroy the ammunition in a safe manner. The communist-era ammunition had been due for disposal by army experts, but had not been destroyed because of insufficent funds.
• Imprudence, or human mistake during the work, such as lighting a cigarette by a worker, or mechanical action on any fuse might have started the fire
• The way the ammunition was stored and the employment of incompetent persons without the proper technical knowledge
• Violation of the technical security rules, including the area where the destruction of ammunition took place
• Intentional action (i.e. arson)

Jason A. Recliner (talk) 08:27, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

• Imprudence, or human mistake during the work, such as lighting a cigarette by a worker, or mechanical action on any fuse might have started the fire

I don't think that fits. For the simple reason that the explosions started when the workers shift was not started yet. If there was a worker that started fire by mistake, he wouldn't be alive after the explosions, and you know there's no fatalities.

• Violation of the technical security rules, including the area where the destruction of ammunition took place

From what I know there is not destruction place there. The main destruction place used for ammunition is Zmeevo, located near Stara Zagora, about 240 km east from Sofia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.87.6.21 (talk) 10:35, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

I know this is complete heresay, but I was one of the State Department contractors that came over in Winter/Spring of '09 to collect and dispose of munitions. Judging from the depth of the blast craters and their locations relative to eachother, it is highly unlikely that this was accidental. An accidental fire would have had to have been absolutely massive to have set off each of the major detonation sites, and while there was a good deal of explosive damage at the site, there was almost no sign of massive fire (the trees were unscarred, the ground unscorched, and the building derbris unburned). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.159.81.6 (talk) 17:55, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Tapes

Are there any videotapes of this? Spike TV has shows that depict these kinds of accidents, such as the Pepcon Explosion depicted in The World's Scariest Explosions.65.173.105.27 (talk) 19:52, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Official response

The president were not first on the scene, but mayor of Sofia was, according to all TV and radio programs that I did watch and listen that morning. Did some fan of Georgi Parvanov wrote this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.130.27.38 (talk) 07:55, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Most likely. There are swarms of such chaps... But one should attain the sooth and provide it with sources in order to achieve stringency Bogorm (talk) 11:02, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

This statement has been added by an anonymous editor: [2]. I've reverted it. If this is the only problem, please remove the template. --Daggerstab (talk) 09:28, 12 July 2008 (UTC)