Talk:2010 FIA GT1 World Championship

Entries

Would it perhaps make it a little clearer if we put the entries information into a table, ie manufacturer in one column and teams in a second? I think the section seems a little jumbled at the moment - but has a lot of good information, just trying to think of a way to make it a little more readable? Or perhaps split it up by manufacturer, have a short (titled) paragraph on each of the six? Oli.meggitt (talk) 14:42, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Not until the FIA publishes the entries. The series is still open to applications I believe. The³5₉ (Talk) 17:39, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Corvette

Isn't it Chevrolet Corvette? I see nothing in the main Chevrolet Corvette article to suggest Corvettes are marketted as their own marque. --Falcadore (talk) 00:13, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Corvette is sold as a marque in Europe, mostly due to Chevrolet having a very non-sporty appearance in Europe where they mostly sell rebadged South Korean cars. All FIA and SRO documentation on the cars refers to their homologation model as the "Corvette Z06", not the Chevrolet Corvette Z06. See also GM Europe's website, which lists Corvette as a brand which sells three models: C6 Coupe/Convertible, Z06, and ZR1.

In fact I think the Middle East (Dubai) may be the only area the GT1 World Championship visits in which the Corvette is sold as a Chevrolet. The³5₉ (Talk) 00:33, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Then this needs to be added to the Chevrolet Corvette articles, because at the moment it says nothing like this. --Falcadore (talk) 01:46, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

I could have sworn it used to mention Corvette's useage as a brand, but I can't find it anywhere. The³5₉ (Talk) 01:51, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Krumm's nationality

The following edit summary accompanied a brief edit war in this subject: FIA entry list, in citation, lists license as Japanese. Common sense and WP:MOTOR consensus say we use the license. I'm not responsible for fixing other articles.

I would suggest that when a discrepancy is created between this article and the driver's home article and a discrpancy that did not exist previously that there is a responsibility inherent as Wikipedia editting should be treated... and I don't like the word in this context... holistically. Articles should be consistent with each other across the jurisdiction of the Wikiproject.

I had also previously believed that the licence consensus referred specifically to teams rather than drivers as this was where bones of contention had appeared previously. There have been any number of exceptions previously across Wikipedia as to the nationality of the nationality of the paperwork and the nationality of the driver, examples that I am personally familiar include, Wayne Gardner, Allan Moffat, Jack, Geoff and David Brabham, Max Wilson, Richard Lyons and so on, why are we taking a hardline with the FIA paperwork now when we have not previously? --Falcadore (talk) 03:35, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

A) I originally listed Krumm as German. Another editor, pointing out the entry list I had added, changed it to Japanese.

B) An IP editor changed the flag back to German, I reverted that because of the citation.

C) It is still not my responsibility to make sure that every article mentioning Krumm's nationality matches. I was simply checking my own watchlist and reverting an IP editor who appeared to not understand the reasoning behind Krumm's Japanese flag.

D) I made the IP revert from my phone simply because I could do it in one click, actual editing of articles is something I'd prefer to wait on until I have a PC. Not that it means this article should be changed simple because the two articles are not matching at this instant. I have no problem with Krumm's article matching, but to revert this article simple because Krumm's said German rather than going by what is actually cited seems foolish at best.

E) Licenses tend to give us something consistant, rather than simply attempting to postulate someone's nationality based on where they were born, where they've lived, where they live now, and other non-concrete factors. See Michael Krumm's FIA GT entry, which lists his birthplace as German and the residency as Monaco, and the FIA document which lists his license as Japanese, and his own website which lists the nationality as German and Swedish. The³5₉ (Talk) 03:55, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Surely his own website would be a primary source, and the FIA secondary? --Falcadore (talk) 04:41, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

And exactly which criteria would you be using to determine his flag? Nationality, birthplace, current residence? And considering your view about having all articles be consistent, which one should we use for all articles? The³5₉ (Talk) 05:14, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

What is the most obvious do you think? What might a reader who potentially knows little about racing, might expect when they see a flag posted next to a driver? --Falcadore (talk) 05:59, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Nationality, but since nationality is not something easily defined, we need something consistant and citable. This is no different than any other biographical element of any article.

I see no uproar over the changed flag for Xavier Maasen (changed from his nationaliaty of Dutch to his license from Belgium), or the Italian Nicky Pastorelli who consistently is listed as Dutch. Really I think this all just stems from the fact that it is odd to have a European name next to a Japanese flag. The³5₉ (Talk) 06:11, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Did not see those changes, not on my watchlist, but I would have objected if the driver concerned stated his nationality was other than what we have on WP. --Falcadore (talk) 06:32, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

While we're at it...

Driver	Birthplace	Parentage	Citizenship	Current Residence	FIA listed nationality	License	Wikipedia Flag
Romain Grosjean	SUI	FRA on mothers side	SUI and FRA	SUI	SUI	FRA	FRA
Andreas Zuber	AUT	Unknown	AUT and UAE	UAE	AUT	UAE	UAE (bio also shows AUT)
Michael Krumm	DEU	DEU, maybe SWE?	DEU, maybe JPN	MON	DEU	JPN	DEU
Alexandros Margaritis	DEU	GRE	DEU and GRE	DEU	GRE	GRE	GRE (bio also shows DEU)
Nicky Pastorelli	NED	ITA	NED	NED	ITA	NED	NED
Xavier Maassen	NED	Unknown	Unknown	BEL	NED	BEL	No bio, but NED previously used

So my simple question to you is, which criteria should we be using for nationality? Parentage? Place of birth? Current residence? Current (possibly multiple) citizenship[s]? How do you define nationality? Because if you're going to pick one of these options, and it's really going to be a shake up of the flags we use on all motorsports articles. Granted, this chart helps point out that the current system of "What country gave the driver its license" still does not quite match what is on the articles, but honestly believe that is more down to people not quite knowing what license a driver holds and simply going for what seems to make sense. Very rarely will we see a driver come out and say "I am X", so we need a system in place in order to establish some national representation. The³5₉ (Talk) 06:53, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Very rarely will we see a driver come out and say "I am X"... it's far more common than you think. Can usually be found on their personal website. Residence and parentage, and racing licence I would not consider at all. Citizenship is the most obvious one, but generally it should not be substantially difficult to find a personal statement, as you did with Krumm's personal website. --Falcadore (talk) 12:16, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Driver websites usually list place of birth and residence, but not alawys something termed "nationality". Even Krumm's website says "German/Swedish". Are you suggesting we use both? Doing away with using racing license would completely alter the falgs of most drivers on Wikipedia. Are you suggesting we change the falgs of F1 drivers like Romain Grosjean? The³5₉ (Talk) 16:33, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Earlier in this debate you stated what was written in other articles wasn't your responsibility, but now it is? --Falcadore (talk) 23:48, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

I've made no mention of other articles, but you seem to be questioning the consensus regarding flag use in all motorsports articles, so your apparent requirement for what defines a drivers nationality will have an affect on other articles, regardless of whether or not you or I personally make the changes.

And do not continue to revert my reversion of IP users who provide no legitimate reasoning behind their changing of driver flags, especially when a referenced nationality already exists on the article. The³5₉ (Talk) 00:10, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

I changed the flags for Krummm, Pastorelli and Maassen as I saw their licence nationalities listed on the entry list cited were different to the flags previously used in the article. I went with the license nationality because I felt they should match what we had for Grosjean and Zuber, which had previously been used in F1 and GP2 articles. I would suggest that we either wait until the official results for the first session at Abu Dhabi, as they will only use one nationality in the results unlike two in the entry list, or we can see what gt1world.com uses in its driver profiles when it does them. - mspete93 10:50, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Oh, I see the GT1 profiles are now up. They read:

Driver	gt1world.com profile
Romain Grosjean	SUI
Andreas Zuber	AUT
Michael Krumm	DEU
Alexandros Margaritis	Not showing at the moment
Nicky Pastorelli	NED
Xavier Maassen	NED

- mspete93 11:17, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

As this clearly is a motorsports-wide policy discussion, it's been raised Here. The³5₉ (Talk) 00:23, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Standings

In case of shared drive, 1st place shared by drivers of the same car does NOT result in the next guy(s) being 3rd, but 2nd (like here [1]). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.221.59.27 (talk) 11:43, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

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