Talk:2012–2014 Salvadoran gang truce

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cielquiparle (talk) 13:42, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that the Salvadoran government, the Catholic Church, and street gangs negotiated a truce to reduce homicides from 2012 to 2014? Source: https://insightcrime.org/news/brief/el-salvador-gangs-confirm-truce/
  • ALT0a: ... that the government of El Salvador, the Catholic Church, and street gangs negotiated a truce to reduce homicides from 2012 to 2014?
  • ALT0b: ... that the government of El Salvador, the Catholic Church, and street gangs negotiated a truce that reduced homicides from 2012 to 2014?
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Proposed new South Shore Line station in South Bend

Created by PizzaKing13 (talk). Self-nominated at 06:08, 26 February 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/2012–2014 Salvadoran gang truce; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• Will review today, making copyedits as I go. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 21:31, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

• @PizzaKing13: Okay, did edits. This article looks like a great resource. New enough, definitely long enough, as neutral as can be for the subject, well cited. Earwig only turns up quotations. The hook is fine and definitely interesting enough; I'd recommend linking the way of ALT0a which I added. QPQ present. A few suggestions or questions before approval ():

• What does "Although the government removed soldiers from the designated peace zones" mean (why "although")? And could this and the following sentence be merged?

• The removal was a part of the peace zone process, so I added the gang's part of process of them surrendering their weapons. Both were supposed to show the truce being strengthened. I merged the sentences with a semicolon.

• "According to journalist C. Ramos" - where is this cited?

• It's within Hume 2016.

• "Perdomo gave contradictory statements both supporting and denying the truce's effectiveness" – elaborate on this?

• I misread the initial source, it's worded a bit weird. Fixed it though and elaborated on what he said.

• "He also stated that while Funes' government was supporting the truce, it was also "creat[ing] more obstacles"" – what does this mean?

• The source doesn't say, but I'd assume Mijango would be trying to say the government is making obstacles to the truce working out/succeeding. Expanded that.

• The article relies heavily on InSight Crime – doesn't seem like an issue, just noting. These sources turned up with a quick search, is there anything important to add from them?

• Thanks, a lot of ISC's sources in their articles are dead and many aren't archived which makes it difficult to rely on them and made diversifying the sources difficult. They laid it all out in a category which made it easier.

• You use "stated" or "stating" a lot ... it may be possible to remove some of them, but that's not an immediate concern.

• Yea, I'll figure that out if/when I nominate this for good article soon.

• Again, nice work on a history I knew very little about. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 23:18, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

• @Hameltion: I personally do prefer your suggested ALT0a which makes the truce link more prominent. Thanks for the review. PizzaKing13 ^¡Hablame! 00:45, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

• Awesome. Adding another slight hook variation. Everything looks good. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 02:03, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:2012–2014 Salvadoran gang truce/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Mujinga (talk · contribs) 13:04, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Review

I'll take this on for review as part of the August 2023 GAN Backlog Drive. I don't know much about this topic but it caught my eye after reading a recent piece in The Economist about current policies. Mujinga (talk) 13:07, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

To add, the high earwig scores (8 distinct hits over 20%) mean more time checking for me, so I might not have the review done today as I also have more IRL stuff than I had planned - I'm just saying this becuase I'd normally ask you to wait before I put the whole review up and ping you, but if I don't get it all done today, feel free to query or reply to anything, but please do make note if you have made changes. Also I'll do some bot edits on the article, feel free to revert and discuss if needed. Mujinga (talk) 18:05, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

I'm afraid I'm going to quickfail this article because it's a long way from meeting criteria 1 (well-written) and 2 (verifiable), the only two I really got to assess it on. In doing checks for copyvio, I did spotchecks and repeatedly found issues with close paraphrasing. I'd suggest giving Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing a read if this doesn't make sense. In addition I found newspaper articles being quoted from too much instead of being summarised and a rather unneeded quote from twitter. These issues will take a while to clean up, but I hope you do since it's a very interesting topic and I'd love to read more good articles from El Salvador. Best of luck with it, Mujinga (talk) 18:50, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Copyvio check

• Earwig is giving high hits, but it seems to be mainly quotations and names, alongside a few examples of close paraphrasing which I'm working through. What I'll do is combine this with spotchecks below.

Spotchecks

• Based on this version

• earwig check on 13, text says:

  Shortly after the truce was announced, Elyssa Pachico and Steven Dudley, two writers for InSight Crime, stated that the gang truce set a "dangerous regional precedent". They stated that truces only lead to a temporary decrease in violence and are difficult to maintain or transform into a long-term solution. They added that the truce emboldened the gangs' political power and that they "may seek to further upset the delicate balance between justice and peace by demanding more concessions [...] this balance may have already tilted too far in the favor [of the] gangs".[13]

  "dangerous regional precedent" - direct quote, ok

  "They stated that truces only lead to a temporary decrease in violence and are difficult to maintain or transform into a long-term solution." is too close to source: "Truces between gangs usually lead to a temporary drop in violence, but they are difficult to sustain or to transform into more long-lasting agreements.", needs changing

  They added that the truce emboldened the gangs' political power and that they "may seek to further upset the delicate balance between justice and peace by demanding more concessions [...] this balance may have already tilted too far in the favor [of the] gangs" - the direct quote is ok, but why do we need to quote in an enyclopedia so extensively from an article? we should be summarising things like this.

• earwig check on 34, text says:

  Mijango dismissed Quijano's comments, claiming that they were only for show for his presidential campaign, adding that "it would be stupid to end the possibility that this process keeps advancing". He also stated that while Funes' government was supporting the truce, it was also "creat[ing] more obstacles" to the truce being effective. He believed that the country's political climate was not enough to break the truce; he added, "I told [the gang members] that it's necessary to wait until after the elections, so that [the election], where everyone is so frenzied, passes". He asked the gangs to "stay out of politics"; "we have an agreement that no one in the gangs is even going to wear a party shirt nor form any part of the party structures".[34]

• source says:
• "it would be stupid to end the possibility that this process keeps advancing" - direct quote, ok
• "creat[ing] more obstacles" - direct quote, ok
• "I told [the gang members] that it's necessary to wait until after the elections, so that [the election], where everyone is so frenzied, passes". - direct quote
• "stay out of politics"; - not a direct quote but reported, should be rephrased
• "we have an agreement that no one in the gangs is even going to wear a party shirt nor form any part of the party structures" - direct quote, ok
• but why do we need all these direct quotes? surely this paragraph can be summarised better

• earwig check on 60, text says:

  In July 2013, deputy Guillermo Gallegos of the Grand Alliance for National Unity (GANA) called for an investigation into Mijango's activities after he claimed on 4 July 2013 that the number of homicides would decrease in 72 hours following a significant spike in homicides in the first three days of July. Gallegos claimed that "a person who has knowledge, control, and knows how the gangs act, and says that in 72 hours homicides may drop is also in some way an accomplice". Another politician commented that Mijango appeared to have information regarding the truce which was not available to others. Mijango refuted their claims and stated that the homicides were not part of a plan to blackmail the government.[60]

• "In July 2013, deputy Guillermo Gallegos of the Grand Alliance for National Unity (GANA) called for an investigation into Mijango's activities after he claimed on 4 July 2013 that the number of homicides would decrease in 72 hours following a significant spike in homicides in the first three days of July." - where is this mentioned in source?
• "Gallegos claimed that "a person who has knowledge, control, and knows how the gangs act, and says that in 72 hours homicides may drop is also in some way an accomplice"." - ok
• "Mijango refuted their claims and stated that the homicides were not part of a plan to blackmail the government" - source says "Mijango refuted the claims, saying the homicides were not part of a plan to blackmail the government." - so this is close paraphrasing and needs to be changed

• earwig check on 102/103, text says On 29 May 2023, Funes was sentenced to 14 years imprisonment—8 for illicit association and 6 for failure to perform his duties—making him the second former president in Salvadoran history to be sentenced to prison after Saca was sentenced to 10 years imprisonment in 2018 for embezzling US$300 million.[102] Following his sentencing, he stated that "the sentence, insofar as it refers to me, is illegal, doesn't have legal foundation", claiming that the government failed to prove the charges against him.[103]

  "the sentence, insofar as it refers to me, is illegal, doesn't have legal foundation" - driect quote, fine

  source103 says "He said the state failed to prove the charges", that's too close to "claiming that the government failed to prove the charges against him", text needs changing

in addition:

• check on 2, text says: According to polling conducted by the Central American University (UCA) during the 2000s, 20.8 percent of Salvadorans believed that gangs were the main issue facing the country, 55 percent would support killing a criminal who terrorizes a community, and 40.5 would approve the lynching of a criminal.[2]

  source says "In October 2003, soon after the implementation of Mano Dura, 20.8 per cent of respondents in an opinion poll carried out by the Central American University’s Polling Institute (IUDOP) felt that gangs were the main problem facing the country" - data is backed, but it's close paraphrasing, suggest rephrasing

  source says "Figures from 2003 indicate that 55 per cent of respondents would approve of the killing of a criminal who terrorises the community; 40.5 per cent would approve of lynching the criminal (UNDP 2003:142)." - this is close paraphrasing and also the data are from UNDP not UCA

• check on 7, text says As a result of both La Mano Dura and Super Mano Dura, around 4,000 gang members were arrested, leading to overcrowding in El Salvador's prisons.[7]

  source says: By some estimates, between 2004 and 2008, the number of gang members in El Salvador’s jails doubled from 4,000 to 8,000, representing about a third of the total jail population. The already clogged and inadequate prison systems were overwhelmed.

  source covers what is in text but i think more is needed about whether the policies were successful (seems not - in fact the article argues Mara Salvatrucha-13 and the Barrio 18 got stronger). also i think it's worth adding that the gang meembers were put into different prisons to stop riots

• check 96, source says:

  In response to Melara's announcement, Funes said on Twitter:[96]

  Los fiscales dejan mucho que desear. Hoy resulta que me acusan de los delitos de negociaciones ilícitas y de incumplimiento de deberes por haber sido "facilitador" de la tregua. Entonces con quién negocié y qué dejé de hacer? Para que haya una asociación o negociación ilícita debí haberme asociado con alquién para delinquir. Con quién? La FGR no lo dice. Y para incumplir mis deberes debí haber faltado a mis responsabilidades como Presidente. Qué obligaciones dejé de cumplir en el caso tregua? Estos fiscales deben regresar a la Universidad y el Fiscal General debe dejar de seguir la agenda de la Embajada USA y de la derecha oligárquica. Cada día se desprestigia más.

  The prosecutors leave a lot to be desired. Today, it turns out that they accuse me of the crimes of illegal negotiations and breach of duty for having been a "facilitator" of the truce. So who did I negotiate with and what did I stop doing? For there to be an illicit association or negotiation, I should have associated with whom to commit a crime. With who? The Attorney General does not say. And to fail in my duties, I should have failed in my responsibilities as President. What obligations did I stop fulfilling in the truce case? These prosecutors must return to university, and the Attorney General must stop following the agenda of the U.S. Embassy and the oligarchic right. Every day, it loses more prestige.

• source says "Los fiscales dejan mucho que desear. Hoy resulta que me acusan de los delitos de negociaciones ilícitas y de incumplimiento de deberes por haber sido "facilitador" de la tregua. Entonces con quién negocié y qué dejé de hacer?" and translation seems faithful. so where is the second half of the comment? further the original language quote should be in the citation not in the text and do we really need a blockquote here? surely a one sentence quote is all we need in the body?

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.