Talk:2012 Guinea-Bissau coup d'état/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: Aircorn (talk · contribs) 09:46, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

There is only 1 tag left and im not sure how to word that. I would venture a guess that its' the Guinea-Bissau_presidential_election,_2012 top 5 candidates other than Gomes Junior, but it may be syhtnesis. Help on re-wording?Lihaas (talk) 12:57, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

note- This was another set of eyes, but im not sure about the source for it [1]Lihaas (talk) 02:40, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi Lihass. Thanks for starting this. One of the reasons I wanted to do a new one as opposed to reopening the closed one is that I have developed my own way of reviewing. It still follows the criteria, it is just set out in a way that helps me keep track of everything. I also wanted to review this from scratch, whereas before I was just providing a comment (well at least initially). I knew nothing about this subject before reading this article (sad but true). It does mean that I can judge whether the article explains the situation well to a layman though, which was my biggest concern when I offered the second opinion. Now what I will do is conduct an initial review based on my first read through and leave comments. I will then judge it against the criteria using one of the tables (sorry don't like the current one here). Hopefully I will have it done in a couple of days. Now I treat this like a collaborative exercise, so if you disagree with one of my points/comments let me know and we can try to come to an agreement. I will not compromise the criteria though. AIRcorn (talk) 05:17, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Oh and i will also copy edit as I go. If I introduce any errors please revert me. AIRcorn (talk) 05:22, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Good to have another set of eyes so its easier for the laymen. I thought it was, but then it was to my writing ;)

I made a corection to your edit just now to clarify the point that the 2011 wasnt a coup.

Also i will likely be busy on Friday till Thursday.Lihaas (talk) 06:15, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Comment

Background

• Despite a peaceful campaign, there were fears of possible violence or a coup d'état if the army did not approve of the winner. Is there more information on this. If it was peaceful what lead to there being fears of violence. How widespread were the fears? If the UN was involved I would imagine it was worldwide, but it should probably be said.

The fears were on precedence and mostly by the media and external speculation. Added caveat for fears

• Just before the attack Ialá Embaló, who claimed to have ties with members of his Balanta ethnic group who are allegedly the largest ethnicity in the military, warned of "consequences" if there was campaigning for the second round of the election. Who is Iala Embalo? Why was there a second round of elections? Is it the normal practice in Guinea-Bissau? Maybe move the last sentence of the paragraph up to explain about the second election. By attack do you mean coup? If so probably better to say that.

Presidential candidate in the election during the runoff (its said i believe). 2nd round is standard on presidential elections in most countries. its also on the requisite linked page. (which was enough i thought) Added notes for why there was a runoff, etc

• The last paragraph in the background section doesn't seem to tie in very well. It is hinting that the withdrawal of the troops was a major catalyst for the coup, but doesn't really say why. For examle I am not sure how On 16 April, Guinea-Bissau Defense Minister Jorge Tolentino Araújo was scheduled to arrive in Angola to meet his counterpart Cândido Pereira dos Santos Van-Dúnem and the Army Chief-of-Staff Geraldo Sachipengo Nunda. He was also expected to visit the Higher Warfare School (ESG) and the Higher Technical Military Institute (ISTM). is relavent since it is describing something that was supposed to happen after the coup.

Its background context for the next paragaph.

Reasons

• I am not sure this is the best heading. It is signalling out a specific reason while the background makes it clear that there are multiple reasons. I think it would fit better merged into the background section. The last few sentences could probably moved down to coup d'etat.

The background is general context in that its prone to instability. Perhaps i can make this a subsection (although this is directly relevant and background is context)? I can move the visit to Angola here, though that is also more context, i think.

• I still think it could explain the background a bit better. From what I could gather from reading the section, Angolan troops were in the country, there was an announcement they were going to leave, the Guinea-Bissau military claimed there were plans to attack them, so they launched the coup? I think something is missing.

Pre-emptively is what the sources indicate. Not sure what is missing.

Is my summary above accurate? AIRcorn (talk) 22:01, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

• Who is na Walna?

Ah! I moved this section up so this is notw his first mention when it wasnt before. Fixing... Done

Coup d'etat

• Gomes's house was attacked by grenades. If it was attacked by grenades it seems a little out of date to say it was reportedly under gunfire.

We could change it but i thought itd be borderline synthesis per the sources.

Why not just remove the Gunfire part? It seems minor that there was reportedly gunfire nearby when we have a source that says the house was attacked by grenades. AIRcorn (talk) 21:58, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

• Reports also suggested the soldiers ransacked and looted the houses they raided. This also seems redundant with the previous sentence. Maybe change to "other houses they raided"

cool done

• Soldiers were reported to be standing guard outside radio and television stations in Bissau, including the state-run television office and the presidential offices This sounds like the presidents offices is a radio or television station?

Aftermath and National Unity Government

• I tried breaking the first sentence up into three separate ones. You might like to check that it still covers the gist of what you were saying and does not introduce any inaccuracies. Here is the original one

The coup leaders formed the "Military Command" under the leadership of the Deputy Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces General Mamadu Ture Kuruma and put forth conditions for a national unity government the day after the coup after having announced the ouster of Gomes Júnior along with the interim President Raimundo Pereira and the Chief-of-Staff of the Armed Forces General Antonio Indjai who were "under the control of the army," however there were rumours he could be hiding in an embassy and soldiers were said to have been going to every embassy to find him.

Yep, checked it. It s fine.

• The detained officials were later released. So does that mean that the did have Indjai? Maybe the previous secton should read "at the time rumours..." to cover this

Article already says Indjai was released Sorted?

• The National Union of Workers of Guinea-Bissau, which has a membership of about 8,000 mostly civil servants, called for a general strike the next day. Does this have a citation?

The next available reference. Its overref-fing when there are no intermediary references to something else. Sorted?

• 'National Assembly speaker Manuel Serifo Nhamadjo, who had previously rejected the office of interim president in April 2012,[38] was again selected as interim president on 11 May 2012 If he rejected the offer then he is not really elected again (although I suppose being "selected" is different).

Yep thats what i meant. He was selected first but rejected, then accepted a second time (other pressures, id imagine). Sorted

Reactions

• At an ECOWAS summit in Côte d'Ivoire to discuss the Malian crisis,[14] Foreign Minister Mamadu Saliu Djaló Pires called for international support as "the situation is serious. This almost sounds like he is calling for support regarding the Malian coup. Also not sure why this is outside the subheadings?

Clarified both Done

• The ECOWAS summit host country's Foreign Minister Daniel Kablan Duncan said that as news came in about the events in Guinea-Bissau the "information indicates to us that there is a coup underway What was the host country for the ECOWAS summit?

Seems like you sorted that. Done

• The Community of Portuguese-Speaking Countries called an extraordinary meeting to take place in Lisbon on 14 April. Why extraordinary?

General political lingo for meeting that are not scheduled and called as an "emergency" session

• The CPLP also condemned the coup and exhorted the UN, AU and ECOWAS to work towards Whats the AU? African union? probably needs t be spelt out the first time it is used.

Done Done

• adding that it appeared the junta had taken control of media outlets, as they were off-air and the headquarters of PAIGC and were trying to restrict movement," adding that "we regret that they have chosen to disrupt the democratic process, which already was challenged by the opposition's call to boycott the second round of elections." Don't reaaly understand this and am not sure how to fix it.

it as quote that i dint finish. Ive fixed it now, chck that out.

Couple of issues: think this is too repetitious use of Angola> + Ashton is not the spokesperson, it is HER spokesman that said so also in the smae edit the important info of which resolution was removed.

Didn't see this. Will change them back. AIRcorn (talk) 08:23, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

You bet me to it. AIRcorn (talk) 08:26, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Subsequent events

• Not sure why there is so much on the Angolan port. Have there been any further updates in the last three months?

In some instance i thought otherwise too,, but the context of the background and due to angola's part in the events (per the reasons cited) this is sort of an "afterword" to the whole thing with continued [unpopular] involvement and renewed conflict with this new government. We could perhaps link somewhere to Angola-Guinea-Bissau relations?

Maybe it can be trimmed a little bit so it doesn't dominate the aftermath so much. Or if there anything further that can be added that will also help. AIRcorn (talk) 22:00, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Second read through

• I think we can safely add a short sentence like "Guinea-Bissau has been described as being unstable" to the start of the background. The rest of the paragraph supports that and it would be a better introduction to the section in my opinion.

I moved the sentence about it being an unstable narcostate to the top, with the refs.

• I wonder if we can remove some of the reportedly or allegedly's through out the article. Some seem to be relatively minor, although I do agree that we should err on the side of caution. Some places where it may not be needed are:
  • ...of his Balanta ethnic group who are allegedly the largest ethnicity in the military...
  • The main target was reportedly Gomes Júnior's residence,[20] which was surrounded by troops and gunfire was reported nearby (see below)
  • ...were reportedly in hiding
  • ...who may have been in the custody...
  • Soldiers were reported to be standing guard outside radio and television stations...

Good to have another set of eyes. i removed/changes some but wasnt sure about the others lest it becomes synthesis. Feel free to change it though.

• Still don't like the reasons header, but I now understand why it is there. Maybe something along the lines of justification (but more neutral). Reasoning? Rational? I think rational works best, but will leave it up to you.

Done.

• The main target was reportedly Gomes Júnior's residence,[20] which was surrounded by troops and gunfire was reported nearby.[21] Journalists were prevented from approaching the scene.[18] Gomes' house was attacked by grenades. Mentioned it above but will add it here again in case it is missed. Can this section be rearranged slightly so it doesn't go into synthesis, but so it also reads better. Suggest something like "The junta targeted Gomes Júnior's residence. It was surrounded by troops, gunfire was reported nearby, it was attacked with grenades and journalists were prevented from approaching the scene."

Changed this quite a bit.

Much better than what I had AIRcorn (talk) 08:27, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

• The United Nations Security Council unanimously voted to "restore constitutional order" in the country and approved Resolution 2048 which sanctions, including issuing travel bans on the diplomatic passports, on five members of the military junta on 18 May This sentence is missing something. Or else "which sanctions" is a stray fragment.

Woops, "which" should have been "with". Better now?

• Where does the 200+ numbers come from in the strength part of the infobox? I don't recall reading that in the text.

Hmm, it was from one of the sources, ill look through and add the source there.

2 things:

I change this back as the new version would then require too many commas.

Not too keen on brackets as caveats, is there a better way? but either way

Also will add a few more images of leaders. Perhaps an image to reactions with the quote of the foeign leader?

What did the house do? ;) Presidential candidate Carlos Gomes Júnior, whose house was arrested after his residence was attacked during the coup

The licensing on the images is fine. Just need to fix the caption on Carlos Gomes Juniors photo. As for the brackets I guess we could just remove that part of the sentence. It is mentioned in the preceding paragraph. You could also go back to the original wording I guess and leave out Ivory Coast. It just sounded a bit weird saying the "the Foreign Minister of the host country of ECOWAS" to my ears. AIRcorn (talk) 08:42, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Woops, was going to write "house attacked and arrested" by swapping the original "attarrested and house attacked" i had then forgot to remove.

Criteria

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

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I think this is pretty good and will be a decent addition to the Good Article corp. It is good to see some variation come through and West Africa is definitely underrepresented.

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): {{GAList/check|}pass}

   Just a few little things above, but this is pretty much there

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   I checked a lot of the references as I went through and they all seemed to be of decent quality and supported what was in the text. If anything I think this overdoes the attribution (something I usually ask for a lot more of in most articles I review)

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   Defiantly broad. Wouldn't want too much more on the reactions section, but I don't think it is enough to prevent it from being Good.

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   As someone completely unfamiliar with the situation it did not ring any alarm bells when it comes to neutrality.

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

   Nothing in the history or talk page to suggest any instability

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   The one image is fine. I would not object to the addition of photos of the main participants, but don't think it is necessary for GA status.

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   Just a few points to address in the second read through above and I will pas this. AIRcorn (talk) 05:32, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Happy to pass this as a GA standard article. Good luck with the FA nomination. AIRcorn (talk) 08:56, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Follow-up

The NYT had a good follow-up article on the coup this month. It would be good to utilize it here: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/02/world/africa/guinea-bissau-after-coup-is-drug-trafficking-haven.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 Everyking (talk) 00:22, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

 DoneLihaas (talk) 01:47, 17 November 2012 (UTC)