Talk:2017 National Scout Jamboree

The use of Category:Trump administration controversies

SlackerDelphi has just removed this category from 21 pages and counting, stating that controversies don't cover events, people, bills, books, etc., in addition to them accusing editors of trying to smear Donald Trump. My first instinct would be to implement the category back into all those pages, but I figured it would be more constructive if everyone could weigh in. From my perspective, a controversy could encapsulate every one of those subjects, such as the 2017 National Scout Jamboree, so I'd say removing it is the polar opposite of a smear campaign. But, let's weigh in, shall we? DARTHBOTTO _talk•cont 23:11, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure what the purpose of categories in general is, much less this one. It does seem problematic to list seemingly arbitrary "people in the news with Trump" in the same category as articles like Dismissal of James Comey. Power~enwiki (talk) 23:20, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

I believe if any kind of subject should be barred from this category, it should be individuals. Events, on the other hand, probably warrant remaining. DARTHBOTTO _talk•cont 23:36, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

I agreed, the controversies themselves should only be included in the category, as in the event or situation, not the people. There would need to be a separate category for people involved in Trump administration controversies, but I don't think that is a category we necessarily need. That is just my opinion though. If we look at Category:Clinton administration controversies, Bush 43 or Obama, they include people as well though. Overall there are a lot of categories out there that I feel are really mispopulated. WikiVirusC^(talk) 23:54, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Okay, @WikiVirusC and Power~enwiki: so SlackerDelphi removed the category from the events American Health Care Act of 2017 and 2017 National Scout Jamboree, with a Russian banks, a book and a few individuals. So, re-implement those two events for now and leave this topic open for debate, whether or not we should include individuals and other entities? DARTHBOTTO _talk•cont 00:00, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Well, now we are getting into defining what is a controversy or not. Personally I wouldn't call either of those one. One is a bill, regardless of how it goes or if/when/how it passes, that's just what happens with bills. The Jamboree I wouldn't call one either. The speech itself could be considered one yes, but not the entire event. If a redirect of Donald Trump's 2017 Boy Scott speech or something similar was created and redirected to the section about his speech, then I would put the redirect in the category and leave the main article alone. I'm not saying how anyone should do it, but it's just how I would. WikiVirusC^(talk) 00:16, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

I'd love to hear what @SlackerDelphi: has to say. Apart from leaving people off for now, I have no opinions here. Power~enwiki (talk) 00:24, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

First then I will start with correcting a misrepresentation of what I stated in the edit comments. I did say including all people in the controversy category is a "smear". But I did not say it was a smear of Donald Trump. I never said that and the claim that I did is simply not true. What is a smear is tagging every single individual that has ANY relationship to Trump--even if tangentally--is a smear of that particular individual, not Trump. It is a classic case of guilt by association. There is a clear guidance in Wikipedia not to use the word "controversy" willy nilly (not to use it as a weasel word) and that is exactly what happened here. An editor placed one or two individuals into the TAdminControv category every few days and that is a smear of each of those individuals. There MUST be some kind of reliable source that uses the word "controversy" in relation to each and everyone of those individuals. Categories are not to used randomly without a reliable source supporting the inclusion and if the category specifically is a category of "controversies" then the category should include "controversies" and not a random list of people that a particular Wikipedia editor wants label a "controversy". Also, I removed the Boy Scout Jamboree from the list because, once again, a jamboree is not a controversy. And the Republican Health Care Act is not a "controversy" regardless of what you might think about it. Yes, there are many people that find it controversial, but article is not about the controversial aspects of it per se. It is about the bill. If there is an article about the Act's controvesial aspects then that article should have the category. There are rules about when to use a category or not and in ALL of these situations thoses rules were not followed.--SlackerDelphi (talk) 00:50, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

For example, why is Mika Brzezinski's article tagged TAC controversies? Is Mika a controversy and not a actual human being. I would like the editor that tagged the article to provide a reliable source that proves that Brezezinski is a controversy and not a person. It is ludicrous to claim she is a controversy. She is not even a Republican. She is not even a member of the Trump Administration. I removed the category because it made zero sense. It was just an attempt to smear Brezezinski by association with Trump. That's all.--SlackerDelphi (talk) 01:02, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

@Ck4829 and DarthBotto: Just for the record, the editor that keeps adding categories to inappropriate topics is at it again. Please see this edit.--SlackerDelphi (talk) 13:48, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

@SlackerDelphi: That's annoying. Yeah, my concern is for ensuring that we have consensus and by this user re-adding it in the midst of our discussion here, that notion is defied. With the reasoning presented on your end, I support removing the categories from most every one of those pages, even the Jamboree page, as the incident was a small portion of an event. If it somehow becomes notable enough for a new article, then sure, but until then... DARTHBOTTO _talk•cont 17:41, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

@DarthBotto: The category rules are what they are. And until the jamboree turns into a controversy then there is no reason to have the TAC category listed at the bottom of this article. I'm pretty sure that the jamboree will turn into a controversy about the same time that pigs will grow wings and fly.--SlackerDelphi (talk) 18:28, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

I see no reason why 2017 National Scout Jamboree doesn't belong in Trump Administration Controversies, especially since it is a political controversy. Jimmy Carter rabbit incident has no connection to politics whatsoever, yet it is a Carter administration controversy.Radiohist (talk) 18:04, 17 August 2017 (UTC)