Talk:2017 Transylvania University machete attack

What need updating?

Hello, E.M.Gregory! In reference to the "update" tag that you added, could you let me know what needs to be updated? Kamalthebest (talk) 03:56, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Legal proceedings need to be added. And ongoing coverage.E.M.Gregory (talk) 11:03, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

@E.M.Gregory: I've updated it with a section on the investigation but the perpetrator does not appear in court until June 7, so I've remove the tag till then and add the necessary information after that date. Kamalthebest (talk) 21:21, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

• I'm good with that.E.M.Gregory (talk) 21:27, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Notability

Unless there is impact on a policy debate or WP:SIGCOV, it should be merged into a list of politically motivated attacks.E.M.Gregory (talk) 11:03, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

@E.M.Gregory: This article meets all of the criteria on WP:SIGCOV:

• Significant coverage – it was covered by Lexington Herald-Leader, New York Times, New York Daily News, CBS News, Lexington Herald-Leader a second time, BuzzFeed, Raw Story, The Washington Post, Lexington Herald-Leader a third time, etc.
• Reliable sources – all of the articles above are from notable and reliable sources
• Secondary sources – all of the articles above are secondary sources
• Independent of the subject – all of the articles above are independent
• Presumed to be suitable – I guess this is just dependent on your personal opinion but judging from the fact that all four other criteria are met, I'd say it is indeed suitable. Please see what I've written below as well. Kamalthebest (talk) 21:07, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Merge

proposing merge to List of attacks related to post-secondary schools.E.M.Gregory (talk) 11:09, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

• Note mergers of Death of Haruka Weiser and 2017 University of Texas stabbing attack into List of attacks related to post-secondary schools following similar discussions.E.M.Gregory (talk) 13:00, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Against merge: This attack was significantly different than the 2017 University of Texas stabbing attack and more comparable to the 2015 University of California, Merced stabbing attack due to a political motivation behind the attack. Not to mention the fact that this is a part in a series of violence on college campuses following the controversial 2016 election (along with the 2017 Berkeley protests, for example). If the 2017 Paris machete attack, 2017 Fresno shootings, March 2017 Île-de-France attacks, 2017 Queanbeyan stabbing attacks, 2016 Minto stabbing attack and the Stabbing of Timothy Caughman can have their own articles with similar amounts of casualties due to political motivations behind the attacks, I see no reason why this should be different. Nearly every attack with even the slightest hint of an Islamist motivation gets its own article, so we should not have a double standard. Kamalthebest (talk) 20:51, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

• Certainly this attack could have sufficient coverage to pass WP:GNG. I thought that the 2016 Minneapolis shooting - a flagrant ideological hate crime - would have such coverage when I started the article. It did not garner such coverage, so I now support a merge to Islamophobia in the United States#Discrimination and hate crimes#Assault. I also, briefly, thought that the 2017 University of Texas stabbing attack would get enough attention to be a stand-alone article. It has not. I searched for sources on this machete attack, and I'm just not seeing much. But notability is not about the nature of the attack, it's about how sources respond to the attack. And, yeah, attacks by Islamists (like [[2015 University of California, Merced stabbing attack) get attention; that other politically-motivated hate crimes do not. But we are not here to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS What this incident needs is sourcing, not arguments about "why this should be different."E.M.Gregory (talk) 21:25, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

@E.M.Gregory: For the first point about the 2016 Minneapolis shooting, I am unfamiliar with this attack but at a first glance, I believe it does deserve its own article with some more work considering the perpetrator was literally found guilty three days ago. I might work on it if I have time. For the second point, I fully agree with your merge on the 2017 University of Texas stabbing attack considering the fact that there was no ideological motive as I stated here on that article's talk page. As for "sources on this machete attack," this has had more than enough coverage:

• Lexington Herald-Leader
• New York Times
• New York Daily News
• CBS News
• Lexington Herald-Leader a second time
• BuzzFeed
• Raw Story
• The Washington Post
• Lexington Herald-Leader a third time

I'm not asking to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS, I'm asking for consistency. I'm not stating why "this should be different", I'm stating why "this should be the same" as the 2017 Paris machete attack, for example. You've even created articles for stuff like the 2017 Queanbeyan stabbing attacks and the 2016 Minto stabbing attack so obviously they're worth an entry, right? More people were injured in this attack than in both of those, and this attack is politically motivated as well. Just because this attack wasn't committed by Muslims, does not mean it's not notable in my view. Kamalthebest (talk) 22:39, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

No one has argued that this attack is not notable "Just because this attack wasn't committed by Muslims".E.M.Gregory (talk) 23:26, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

@E.M.Gregory: Sorry if it came off like I was insinuating bad faith on your part. I just meant that articles should be given the same treatment regardless of the perpetrator as long as there is a political motivation. I also greatly appreciate the fact that you created the 2016 Minneapolis shooting page so thank you for that. Kamalthebest (talk) 23:34, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

• A crime, whether in Minnneapolis or Kentucky, still needs WP:RS coverage that is non-local and that extends beyond the initial news cycle, see WP:NCRIME - let alone WP:GNG. Take a look at a few of the old crime-related deletion discussions to see that this is so.E.M.Gregory (talk) 23:48, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

• Thank you for finding that verdict, I searched when the article went to AfD specifically because the incident looked notable ot me, but there was very little followup coverage at that point.E.M.Gregory (talk) 23:26, 15 May 2017 (UTC) Moved this comment an article about 2016 Minneapolis shooting up the page to avoid confusion.E.M.Gregory (talk) 17:29, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

• @E.M.Gregory: I agree that it needs WP:RS coverage, but I provided this above and in the article. Raw Story, NY Times, etc. are not local papers. I already stated why I believe this fits WP:GNG above. As for WP:NCRIME, the only difference stated is that "media coverage can confer notability on a high-profile criminal act, provided such coverage meets the above guidelines and those regarding reliable sources" and these sources are reliable. Kamalthebest (talk) 02:11, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

• Kamal, I am offering advice based on my considerable experience with articles about crime. At present, all coverage is in from a single news cycle, with the sole exception of a local article about the post-arrest legal proceedings. All coverage is to date has been routine. If it goes ot AfD now, it will be deleted or redirected to a list. For what it's worth, that's my assessment.E.M.Gregory (talk) 09:51, 18 May 2017 (UTC)