Talk:2018 Italian general election/Archives/2021/December

Centre-left color

@Yakme: Hi, excuse me for pinging you here, but do you know what happened to Centre-left coalition/meta/color? -- Nick.mon (talk) 15:58, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Nothing, it looks like it's still there (for now). However Template:Centre-left coalition/meta/color and similar templates are not used anymore in infoboxes and generally deprecated (after a TFD discussion). Now everything is managed by Module:Political party (which unfortunately at the moment is template-protected and cannot be edited). What is the problem you are finding? --Yakme (talk) 16:15, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

@Yakme: Oh ok, thank you! Anyway, at the moment, I can't see the color in the tables, the "column" with the centre-left color is just empty. But this happens with the centre-left only, so I fear there's something wrong in the Template:Centre-left coalition/meta/color, but I sincerly don't know what. -- Nick.mon (talk) 17:35, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

I've fixed it; there was a circular reference in the module. Cheers, Number 57 19:46, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

@Number 57: Thank you so much! -- Nick.mon (talk) 22:15, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Request for comment on Infobox to be used with the current Italian electoral system:

Should the current infobox of the 2018 Italian general elections be replaced with one that first shows the results of the parties and then the results of the coalitions?--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 14:53, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

The request stems from the idea of showing both the results of the coalitions and the results of the parties in the infobox in the most correct way possible. The current Italian electoral system provides for both proportional and majoritarian distribution of seats. More precisely, 61% of seats are assigned to single parties with a proportional system, while 37% of seats are assigned to coalitions of parties with the First-past-the-post system.

Some parties (More Europe, Us with Italy, Together, Popular Civic List) have not won seats by exceeding the 3% threshold, but have obtained some seats only within the coalition in the First-past-the-post system.

So my request is: should the current infobox be replaced with another infobox showing above the results of the single parties (that directly won seats) and then those of the coalitions? The infobox would be the following:

Proposal

2018 Italian general election

4 March 2018
All 630 seats in the Chamber of Deputies (C) · 315 seats in the Senate (S)
Opinion polls
Registered	46,505,350 (C) · 42,780,033 (S)
Turnout	33,923,321 (C) · 72.9% (2.3 pp) 31,231,814 (S) · 73.0% (2.1 pp)
First party Second party Third party   Leader Luigi Di Maio Matteo Salvini Matteo Renzi Party Five Star Movement League Democratic Party Alliance None Centre-right Centre-left Leader since 23 September 2017 15 December 2013 15 December 2013 Leader's seat Acerra (C) Lazio (S) Florence (S) Seats won 227 (C) · 112 (S) 125 (C) · 58 (S) 112 (C) · 53 (S) Seat change 114 (C) · 58 (S) 109 (C) · 39 (S) 80 (C) · 57 (S) Popular vote 10,732,066 (C) 9,733,928 (S) 5,698,687 (C) 5,321,537 (S) 6,161,896 (C) 5,783,360 (S) Percentage 32.7% (C) 32.2% (S) 17.4% (C) 17.6% (S) 18.8% (C) 19.1% (S) Swing 7.1 pp (C) 8.4 pp (S) 13.3 pp (C) 13.3 pp (S) 6.6 pp (C) 8.3 pp (S)   Fourth party Fifth party Sixth party   Leader Silvio Berlusconi Giorgia Meloni Pietro Grasso Party Forza Italia Brothers of Italy Free and Equal Alliance Centre-right Centre-right None Leader since 18 January 1994 8 March 2014 3 December 2017 Leader's seat Did not run Latina (C) Sicily (S) Seats won 104 (C) · 57 (S) 32 (C) · 18 (S) 14 (C) · 4 (S) Seat change 1 (C) · 41 (S) 25 (C) · 18 (S) New party Popular vote 4,596,956 (C) 4,358,004 (S) 1,429,550 (C) 1,286,606 (S) 1,114,799 (C) 991,159 (S) Percentage 14.0% (C) 14.4% (S) 4.4% (C) 4.3% (S) 3.4% (C) 3.3% (S) Swing 7.6 pp (C) 7.9 pp (S) 2.5 pp (C) 2.4 pp (S) New party
Chamber of Deputies (by coalition)
Party Leader Vote % Seats +/– Centre-right Parties League Forza Italia Brothers of Italy Us with Italy–UDC Several Leaders Matteo Salvini Silvio Berlusconi Giorgia Meloni Raffaele Fitto 37.00 265 +140 Five Star Movement Luigi Di Maio 32.68 227 +118 Centre-left Parties Democratic Party More Europe Together Popular Civic List SVP–PATT Several Leaders Matteo Renzi Emma Bonino Giulio Santagata Beatrice Lorenzin Philipp Achammer 22.85 122 −223 Free and Equal Pietro Grasso 3.38 14 New MAIE Ricardo Merlo 1 −1 South American Union Italian Emigrants Eugenio Sangregorio 1 0 This lists parties that won seats. See the complete results below.
Senate (by coalition)
Party Leader Vote % Seats +/– Centre-right Parties League Forza Italia Brothers of Italy Us with Italy–UDC Several Leaders Matteo Salvini Silvio Berlusconi Giorgia Meloni Raffaele Fitto 37.00 137 +20 Five Star Movement Luigi Di Maio 32.22 112 +58 Centre-left Parties Democratic Party More Europe Together Popular Civic List SVP–PATT Several Leaders Matteo Renzi Emma Bonino Giulio Santagata Beatrice Lorenzin Philipp Achammer 22.85 60 −63 Free and Equal Pietro Grasso 3.28 4 New Aosta Valley Albert Lanièce 1 0 MAIE Ricardo Merlo 1 −1 South American Union Italian Emigrants Eugenio Sangregorio 1 0 This lists parties that won seats. See the complete results below. Prime Minister before Prime Minister after the election Paolo Gentiloni Democratic Party Giuseppe Conte Independent

Other possible solutions are available. Opinions? --Scia Della Cometa (talk) 15:08, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

• A definite no to the one proposed to the right. The one that was removed a couple of days ago was much better IMO, and I would support its reinstatement. Number 57 21:02, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

As I have already explained, some of those parties ave not won seats (therefore in contrast to the description below the table), so that table was not correct. An infobox cannot give a misleading representation of the elections, and that table gave it.--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 21:13, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

So if it's wrong, correct it rather than delete it. Number 57 21:30, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

It was not possible to correct it: the table is designed to include all seats, and the parties I have already mentioned have not won seats individually. I didn't understand why you are against the proposed infobox, but honestly I don't see any errors and / or misleading information in it. On the contrary, it seems to me very complete and at the same time not too large. Instead, the table I removed was really misleading and I explained the reason.--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 21:46, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

@Number 57: at the moment you are the only user who has expressed an opinion (contrary) to the proposal in this Rfc: could I know what errors there are in the infobox to understand your definite opposition? --Scia Della Cometa (talk) 13:28, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

It's far too large. The second row in the top half is unnecessary IMO, and I would rather see a full party breakdown underneath rather than one done by alliance. Number 57 19:34, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

@Number 57: it is true, it is large, but not excessively. After all, there are many infoboxes about the same size as the one proposed (2017 United Kingdom general election, 2021 German federal election, 2019 Portuguese legislative election, 2017 French legislative election etc.), the size is within the average... I would like the infobox to reflect the current Italian electoral system as faithfully as possible: de facto, the current electoral system is different from the previous one, because it provides for a competition between parties (each with its own leader) with the possibility with the possibility to join forces in single-member constituencies for the distribution of the remaining 37% of the seats. The current infobox in the page is oversimplified, it doesn't even contain any details about the leaders, which, instead I think are very interesting.

The full party breakdown is not possible to represent with the "Infobox legislative election" if not through alliances: each single party or coalition should be preceded by a "heading", this would cause a repetition of the single parties, such as the Five Star Movement.

The inclusion of the aforementioned "Infobox legislative election" in the current infobox would still make it very large (no less than the proposed infobox), and would contain less information.

In order to correctly represent all parties that "have won seats", the second line should not be removed. If it looks too large to you, what would you say if the size of the images were reduced (see above)? --Scia Della Cometa (talk) 20:09, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

2018 Italian general election

4 March 2018
All 630 seats in the Chamber of Deputies (C) · 315 seats in the Senate (S)
Opinion polls
Registered	46,505,350 (C) · 42,780,033 (S)
Turnout	33,923,321 (C) · 72.9% (2.3 pp) 31,231,814 (S) · 73.0% (2.1 pp)
First party Second party Third party   Leader Luigi Di Maio Matteo Salvini Matteo Renzi Party M5S Lega PD Alliance None Centre-right Centre-left Seats won 227 (C) · 112 (S) 125 (C) · 58 (S) 112 (C) · 53 (S) Popular vote 10,732,066 (C) 9,733,928 (S) 5,698,687 (C) 5,321,537 (S) 6,161,896 (C) 5,783,360 (S) Percentage 32.7% (C) 32.2% (S) 17.4% (C) 17.6% (S) 18.8% (C) 19.1% (S)   Fourth party Fifth party Sixth party   Leader Silvio Berlusconi Giorgia Meloni Pietro Grasso Party FI FdI LeU Alliance Centre-right Centre-right None Seats won 104 (C) · 57 (S) 32 (C) · 18 (S) 14 (C) · 4 (S) Popular vote 4,596,956 (C) 4,358,004 (S) 1,429,550 (C) 1,286,606 (S) 1,114,799 (C) 991,159 (S) Percentage 14.0% (C) 14.4% (S) 4.4% (C) 4.3% (S) 3.4% (C) 3.3% (S)
Results by coalition
Party Vote % Seats +/– Chamber of Deputies Centre-right (Lega, FI, FdI, NcI–UDC) 37.00 265 +140 Five Star Movement 32.68 227 +118 Centre-left (PD, +E, IEI, CP, SVP–PATT) 22.85 122 −223 Free and Equal 3.38 14 New MAIE 1 −1 South American Union Italian Emigrants 1 0 Senate Centre-right (Lega, FI, FdI, NcI–UDC) 37.00 137 +20 Five Star Movement 32.22 112 +58 Centre-left (PD, +E, IEI, CP, SVP–PATT) 22.85 60 −63 Free and Equal 3.28 4 New Aosta Valley 1 0 MAIE 1 −1 South American Union Italian Emigrants 1 0 This lists parties that won seats. See the complete results below. Prime Minister before Prime Minister after the election Paolo Gentiloni Democratic Party Giuseppe Conte Independent

}}

@Number 57: another alternative (even more compact) could be the one above, it is inspired by the infobox used for the Chilean elections. What do you think about it? --Scia Della Cometa (talk) 15:16, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

@Number 57: Uhm, how should I interpret this silence, that you are equally contrary?--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 13:48, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Just that I am busy. I think both of the suggestions are overwhelming in the amount of detail and fail MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE. I'd personally go for something much simpler like this, maybe with leaders added back in: Number 57 14:17, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

2018 Italian general election

4 March 2018

All 630 seats in the Chamber of Deputies (C) · 315 seats in the Senate (S)

Party Vote % Seats +/– Chamber of Deputies Centre-right (Lega, FI, FdI, NCI–UDC) 37.00 265 +140 Five Star Movement 32.68 227 +118 Centre-left (PD, +E, IEI, CP, SVP–PATT) 22.85 122 −223 Free and Equal 3.38 14 New MAIE 1 −1 South American Union Italian Emigrants 1 0 Senate of the Republic Centre-right (Lega, FI, FdI, NCI–UDC) 37.00 137 +20 Five Star Movement 32.22 112 +58 Centre-left (PD, +E, IEI, CP, SVP–PATT) 22.85 60 −63 Free and Equal 3.28 4 New Aosta Valley 1 0 MAIE 1 −1 South American Union Italian Emigrants 1 0 This lists parties that won seats. See the complete results below. Prime Minister before Prime Minister after the election Paolo Gentiloni Democratic Party Giuseppe Conte Independent

@Number 57 @Yakme @Nick.mon: I premise that I much prefer the infobox proposed by Number 57 rather than the current one on the page, but could the corrected second version here above be a good compromise? I have tried to correct it by eliminating all the additional details and keeping only the results of the parties and coalitions, in order to make it as compact as possible. The swing of seats are already indicated in the second part of the infobox. Alternatively, I would also be in favor of adopting an infobox similar to the one proposed by Number 57 (but a little more complete, with party leaders for example). Let me know.--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 15:44, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

The party results should be shown first & then the coalitions. PS - Side note: Has their ever been a majority government in Italy's history? GoodDay (talk) 20:53, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

@GoodDay: Do you refer to parties or coalitions? With reference to parties, in the republican age, just once, in 1948, the Christian Democracy won the majority of seats (but it did not rule alone). With reference to coalitions, only from 1994 to 2008 the elections were clearly won by a coalition that could to form a majority government.--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 22:53, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

A one-party majority. GoodDay (talk) 23:19, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

I would prefer something that shows the leaders' pictures. So if I had to choose, I would pick something along the lines of the first or second proposals shown here. However I would suggest using better pictures, the official Parliament portraits are really sad, with bad quality and bad lighting IMHO. --Yakme (talk) 13:47, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

I hoped for more participation, but I think we will have to draw conclusions based on the users who have expressed their opinion. I too would prefer to keep the portraits of the leaders, but I don't like collages that are too crowded. The photos on the infobox proposed are obviously indicative, they can be changed. I am pleased that 2 users (GoodDay and Yakme) would accept the proposal; in the previous discussion it seems to me that another user was also available to use this type of infobox, while Number 57 did not reply on the second proposed version, which is quite more compact than the first. I believe that the infobox proposed would be more consistent with those used for most countries and also with the changes made to the infoboxes of the Italian general elections from 1946 to 1992.--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 22:31, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

It seems to me that there is a slight consensus to use an infobox like the one proposed. If there are no further developments, at the end of the RFC I will change the infobox. Obviously anyone will can reopen a discussion about it, if they deem it necessary.--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 11:03, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Then I proceed with the modification of the infobox, I hope that no one opposes this solution.--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 18:09, 20 December 2021 (UTC)