Talk:2020 Salvadoran political crisis

Coup templates

@Pizzaking13: Hi! Best regards. If possible, I was meaning to ask further about the reasons of why the crsis could be considered a coup. Given the disagreement that there has been over related pages, I have thought that it's important to take particular caution about this. Many thanks in advance! --NoonIcarus (talk) 02:43, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

@NoonIcarus: The definition of a self coup states A self-coup … is a form of coup d'état or putsch in which a nation's leader, having come to power through legal means, dissolves or renders powerless the national legislature and unlawfully assumes extraordinary powers not granted under normal circumstances. 1.) "[R]enders powerless the national legislature" – Bukele sent in the Army to the Legislative Assembly to intimidate and pressure them to pass a loan from the United States he wanted, effectively forcing the legislature to do something with nothing they could do about it. 2.) "[U]nlawfully assumes extraordinary powers not granted under normal circumstances" – Bukele is allowed to convene the legislature like he did when he invoked article 167 of the constitution, but he is not allowed to send the military into the legislature, especially to intimidate politicians to vote a certain way. He later threatened to invoke article 87 (which allows the people to revolt to restore constitutional order) if the legislators did not convene in a week to approve the loan, which would not have disrupted constitutional order. The Legislative Assembly has called the event a coup, the Supreme Court denounced Bukele's actions as illegal, and sources from the LA Times, BBC, El País, the University of Pittsburgh, and openDemocracy have labeled the event as a coup or self coup attempt. ARENA has subsequently compared it to the 2021 US Capitol storming which is also commonly labeled as a coup or self coup attempt. --Pizzaking13 (talk) 06:12, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

@Pizzaking13: Fair enough, I understand. I'm wary of this classification since there wasn't a transfer of power and the move wasn't aimed at taking power directly, as it was destined to pressure to approve a loan. Similar disputes have happened in the past in other political crises articles and even impeachment processes.

I see the article has been nominated for GA, I'll see if I can help with it in the future. Best regards. --NoonIcarus (talk) 11:26, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 29 March 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) Vpab15 (talk) 17:45, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

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• 2020 Salvadoran political crisis → 9F
• 9F → 9F (disambiguation)

– Per WP:COMMONNAME as all sources and news outlets refer to the 2020 Salvadoran political crisis as "9F," standing for 9 February, similar to 20-N. Pizzaking13 (talk) 18:54, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose 1) What's the evidence that this is the long-run primary topic of "9F" in English-language sources? I don't think it is based on Google search / Google Scholar results. 2) The term "9F" lacks recognizability compared to the current title, which lets the reader know what it's about. (t · c) buidhe 23:50, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose. The current title meets WP:CRITERIA in a way that "9F" would not. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 09:30, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

• Bulleted list item

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:2020 Salvadoran political crisis/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: JBchrch (talk · contribs) 21:21, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

Happy to take up this review. I will start shortly to read the article and will post comments and suggestions below as I go along. JBchrch talk 21:21, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! I won't be available to respond to this until 5 July 2021 at earliest for certain, however, but I will try to respond here if I can until then. Pizzaking13 (Hablame) 21:26, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

No worries, thank you very much for the info. I will start the review regardless and you can address my comments whenever you get the time. JBchrch talk 21:30, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

Alright, thanks. Pizzaking13 (Hablame) 21:32, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

Lead. Do refs 1 and 2 confirm the use of the acronym 9-F? I did not find that. JBchrch talk 09:43, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Source 1: The title itself "El impacto del 9F en la cultura democrática de El Salvador" and it refers to the incident as 9F throughout

Source 2: "San Salvador — The media in El Salvador quickly dubbed it “9F.”"

Sorry, to be more specific, I meant the 9-F acronym, with the dash in the middle. --JBchrch talk 18:08, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

I got rid of the 9–F one. I swore I saw it being used, but I can't find it in that style anymore, so I'll keep it at 9F.

Lead. I think § Aftermath and domestic reactions should be summarized in the lead as well. JBchrch talk 09:45, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Added a summary.

Lead. I think we can do better than this first sentence, which is a bit long and complicated for my taste. We could model it on other articles about political crisis, such as 2021 United States Capitol attack (On Wednesday, January 6, 2021, the United States Capitol in Washington, D.C., was stormed during a riot and violent attack against the U.S. Congress), Saturday Night Massacre (The Saturday Night Massacre was a series of events that took place in the United States on the evening of Saturday, October 20, 1973, during the Watergate scandal) or Night of the Long Knives (a FA) (The Night of the Long Knives ... was a purge that took place in Nazi Germany from June 30 to July 2, 1934.) In other words, something very short and punchy that merely introduces what happened. JBchrch talk 09:59, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Split into two sentences and made simpler.

Lead. Could you please point out to me where ref 3 says that it was a coup attempt? JBchrch talk 10:05, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

I'll get back to this.

I think I must have put the wrong reference in for the lead self-coup claim. I put in a reference that does state it saw a coup attempt.

Background § 1. I think we lack dates indication here. It would be useful if there was an indication of when these events took place.

Added dates.

General. The link to the AlJazeera article "Constitutional crisis in El Salvador over Bukele's security plan" does not work anymore. JBchrch talk 10:07, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

It was thankfully archived on the Wayback Machine. I added the link in the citation.

General. I don't think Dolzall, Tom (11 February 2020). "Assembly Standoff Leads to Crisis in El Salvador". Defense & Security Monitor. is a reliable source, per WP:BLOGS. If you agree to remove it, it could be useful to add a second source, since the other source is a think thank and—while I accept it as reliable—think thanks are somewhat controversial at WP:RSN. JBchrch talk 10:22, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

I'll get back to this.

I removed the source since it is from wordpress. It's removal doesn't affect much since what it was citing already had additional sources.

Background § 1. It would be useful to have an indication of where all these political parties stand politically, such as left, right, nationalist etc.

Added.

Could you please also specify where GANA and NI stand politically? JBchrch talk 18:08, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Added.

Crisis § 1. Could you expand on what article 167 of the Salvadorian Constitution provides?

Added a brief summary

That's a useful ref that you've added, but I was more wondering why he invoked article 167,

Added that it was to convene a vote on the loan specifically.

General. Here's an article that could be useful for sourcing purposes: https://elpais.com/internacional/2020/02/10/america/1581294344_999638.html

I'll get back to this.

Aftermath and domestic reactions § 1. Regarding Small demonstrations protesting Bukele's: when I click on demonstrations protesting, it leads me to 2020 Salvadoran protests, which states in the first sentence that the demonstrations were massive. Which one is it?

The protests were small, the other article is incorrect. I fixed that.

Aftermath and domestic reactions § 3. It would be useful spelling out what is generally meant by self-coup (per WP:GACR #1).

Added

General. I don't think that Vivanco, José Miguel (14 February 2020). "President Bukele, Brute Force Is Not the Way Forward for El Salvador". Human Rights Watch. Retrieved 29 March 2021. and "Political Crisis in El Salvador Should be Solved Through Dialogue, Not Through Power Plays and Military Deployments". WOLA. 10 February 2020. Retrieved 9 February 2021. are strictly reliable for factual assertions, and are subject to WP:RSOPINION. I do note, however, that both sources contain hyperlinks to reliable news article, for which they could be substituted. JBchrch talk 14:22, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

I'll get back to this.

I read over the sources. For HRW, only the last paragraph is an opinion, while the rest is a factual account of what occurred. WOLA's is mostly opinion, and since it is only cited once, I moved it to further reading.

General. Exact same comment regarding Bristol, Mia (28 February 2020). "El Salvador's Attempted Coup". Panoramas. University of Pittsburgh. Retrieved 9 February 2021. JBchrch talk 17:05, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

I'll get back to this.

Like WOLA, I moved it to further reading. I replaced its sources with Bukele's actual tweet and the Constitution source I used for 167. Apologies for the delay. I caught a cold recently and kinda forgot about this. I should be caught up though. Pizzaking13 (Hablame) 01:55, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

I just got back from El Salvador so I'm kinda washed up right now. I'll get back to this ASAP. Pizzaking13 (Hablame) 17:57, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

No worries Pizzaking13, I am in no rush. Hope you enjoyed your trip 👍. JBchrch talk 17:58, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

@Pizzaking13: Would you have any ETA on responding to the rest of the review? JBchrch talk 12:44, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@Pizzaking13: Sorry for my own delay. I will most probably close this nomination as successful by tomorrow. Thanks for you for your understanding. JBchrch talk 16:58, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Sorry again for the delay Pizzaking13, we both got a bit distracted in the course of this review! In any case, I can establish that this article is well written, verifiable, with no original research, broad in its coverage, neutral, stable, and illustrated by properly tagged and captioned pictures. It's a GA. Congratulations and thanks for contribution to Wikipedia! JBchrch talk 22:10, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

JBchrch that's fine, and thank you for reviewing this article! Pizzaking13 (Hablame) 23:34, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

What happened about the proposed loan in the end ?

Did El Salvador apply for it ? How did the US respond ? -- Beardo (talk) 04:00, 7 October 2021 (UTC)