Talk:2020s anti-LGBTQ movement in the United States

Low Grade Sources

After looking at all 224 of the present sources, All but 10 of them come from low grade news sources (ie, news sources which regularly post incorrect or misleading articles). One of the 10 remaining is a twitter tweet, and the rest are mostly court cases. Does it worry anyone else that such an incredible amount of this page is reliant on such organizations? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.59.118.255 (talk) 02:39, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

The sources in the article are not low grade sources. I recommend you familiarize yourself with Wikipedias reliable sourcing guidelines. You can also refer to the list of perennial sources which list most regularly used organizations for sourcing and consensus about their reliable use. Raladic (talk) 14:54, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Many of the sources are either opinion pieces such as the source published by UCLA in the opinion column, or from biased sources such as Daily Beast. 67.0.229.115 (talk) 03:21, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Xtra Mag and LGBTQnation

[[@Blueshirtz

This is an article about a fascist movement targeting an oppressed minority group. Saying we shouldn’t cite sources that side with that group would be like saying we shouldn’t cite sources that side with Jews regarding the Holocaust, or side with Native Americans about the trail of tears.

The neutral point between no bigotry and yes bigotry is not, nor ever should it be, some degree of bigotry. Snokalok (talk) 19:41, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

BlueShirtz

caps Snokalok (talk) 19:42, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

If this Wikipedia page defines the "2020s anti-LGBT movement in the United States" as a "fascist movement targeting an oppressed minority group" then this article is in violation of this website's mission to provide a neutral viewpoint. Aside from the accusations of pro-LGBT supporters, there is no evidence that this movement is "fascist."

Wikipedia is a website that is only supposed to cite sources that have been defined as reliable, for an article about an American social and political movement those may include ABC News, CBS News, NBC News, The New York Times, The Washington Post just to list a few. Unlike those sources, Xtra Magazine is a publication that was founded "...to advance the struggle for sexual liberation" and LGBTQ Nation is a publication that has "...a pro-LGBTQ point of view..." This is also why sources that support the anti-LGBT movement, such as The Daily Wire for example, would not be allowed as cited sources.

To write this article with the perspective that this movement is "fascist" or comparable to the Trail of Tears or the persecution of Jews during the Holocaust is a dishonest and biased analysis from a pro-LGBT perspective. There are many Americans who believe that there are only two genders, that children should not be allowed to attend drag shows, that certain books in libraries are too obscene and shouldn't be available, or that it is unfair for transgender athletes to compete in the sport of the gender they identify with.

This movement is a divisive issue in the United States, with many supporters and challengers. Regardless of the personal opinions of editors, this article needs to comply with the rules of the website by maintaining a neutral point of view, which is not pro-LGBT nor anti-LGBT. BlueShirtz (talk) 20:26, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

While The Daily Wire is considered generally unreliable, it is not because it supports any particular movement. "Detractors note the site's tendency to share stories that are taken out of context or are improperly verified". Even sources that are "biased" may be included as long as they are considered reliable, but may require attribution, which is generally determined by community consensus and WP:NPOV...DN (talk) 22:33, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

"Even sources that are "biased" may be included" Wikipedia policy on biased sources is that they are acceptable: "reliable sources are not required to be neutral, unbiased, or objective. Sometimes non-neutral sources are the best possible sources for supporting information about the different viewpoints held on a subject." Whether Xtra Magazine is a reliable source is another question. Dimadick (talk) 11:57, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

As I mentioned, the neutral point between yes bigotry and no bigotry is not some amount of bigotry, it’s no bigotry. Snokalok (talk) 18:58, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

If it is written in this article that the "2020s anti-LGBT movement in the United States" is a "bigoted" movement then this article is not neutral. There are pro-LGBT supporters who may make that accusation, but stating a contested assertion like that as a fact in a Wikipedia article is failing to meet a neutral point of view. BlueShirtz (talk) 05:47, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Are you hearing yourself right now? Genuine question Snokalok (talk) 19:56, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Just, okay, by your logic, should we be rewriting our article on slavery because enough people down in places like TN and FL have started saying that they think slavery was actually good? Does more people in a country coming to support the obviously bigoted position, make it not bigoted by virtue of gaining support? Snokalok (talk) 20:09, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

This article should be unbiased and factual. Stating that "The 2020s anti-LGBT movement in the United States is a bigoted movement" is biased and not factual. It could be stated, if there are sources to support it, that there have been pro-LGBT supporters who accuse this movement of bigotry, but you cannot state that accusation as a fact in an online encyclopedia.

In reference to your comparison, the slavery in the United States article is a well-written example of this. It does not state opinions as facts, it does not state facts as opinions, and it uses nonjudgmental language. By following those standards, it complies with Wikipedia's rule of maintaining a neutral point of view as this article should too. BlueShirtz (talk) 01:37, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

The holocaust and American Native Genocide are much worse than this! 67.0.229.115 (talk) 03:29, 28 July 2024 (UTC)