Talk:2021 Hong Kong legislative election

Separate articles for the 2020 and 2021 elections

I suggest that we keep the article on the (aborted) 2020 Legislative Council Election, and start a new one for the proposed 2021 election. Although 'postponed' is the word used by the government, the two events have distinct political and electoral significance, and practically, the 2021 event will be completely new, with candidacy open to all, while candidates in the 2020 event will have their deposits reimbursed and the whole thing wound up.
Thoughts?
Cossaxx (talk) 13:21, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

• I'm inclined to agree, due to the numerous huge ramifications. With the disqualifications and other moves by the CPC regime, the election that takes place in a year's time will be a whole different electoral event. It seems that the "postponed" election will re-open for nominations, and different slates will be put up, thus rendering the 2020 election null. The only question is which article covers what will happen in this year during the interregnum, as the powers of the incumbent legislature would automatically extended in other jurisdictions – although Curry Lam seems to have categorically ruled it out. -- Ohc ^¡digame! 14:14, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Major contributor User:Lmmnhn posted at his talk page:

Sorry but I will have to disagree with that. Correct me if I was wrong but never have any cancelled election is kept as a separate article on wikipedia. To include a cancelled election with other election articles would be a very confusing gesture to the readers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cossaxx (talk • contribs) 14:26, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Lmmnhn, surely the two events are distinct and each significant in their own right? The 2020 event narrative is dominated by the arrival of the National Security Law, recent and ongoing protests, and Covid-19, with the interplay between them, government, and international opinion all a huge part of this year’s (non-)election. To sweep all that into a mould of the same-old event just moved along a bit would be a huge disservice to the subject matter.

To your point that it might be confusing – it’s our job to name and write the two articles so that they are not confusing.

Wikipedia must primarily convey the reality – which is change, not continuity – and that cannot be subservient to a rigid presentation format, such as for a normal sequence of similar events. Cossaxx (talk) 14:32, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

The election has been cancelled and has not been postponed, as incumbents' roles would be extended for a defined period in such a case. Carrie Lam has already declared that the currently-constituted Legco is finished at the end of its "normal term". Yes, it's confusing, but many things happening in HK are confusing to non-HKers because the PRC doesn't play by rules that we in the free world recognise. It's not sufficient a justification for following and propagating the desired narrative of the PRC. -- Ohc ^¡digame! 14:43, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Maybe it should not be called "2020 Hong Kong legislative election" then? Because it was an election that never happened? May be "Background of the 2021 Hong Kong legislative election" would be a more suitable title? Btw, I have recently created "2020 Hong Kong LegCo candidates' disqualification controversy" which added the background and response sections surrounding the controversy. Lmmnhn (talk) 14:49, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Oh I completely agree that the title needs to convey that it was not a completed election. Though I suggest that the 2020 event is more notable than merely as background to the replacement. How about "2020 Hong Kong legislative election - XXX", where 'XXX' is 'cancelled'/'postponed'/'didn't happen' or some such? Cossaxx (talk) 14:54, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

And while Hong Kong's situation is unusual, there are examples of other WP articles on non-elections:

1967 Greek legislative election, Next Qatari general election, and a variety of cases where circumstances meant that elections could not be neatly boxed in a standard sequence at List of annulled elections. Cossaxx (talk) 14:56, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

I would propose moving the DQ article to Aborted 2020 Hong Kong legislative election. This will allow the article to be expanded in line with developments, and the 2021 Hong Kong legislative election can be simplified. -- Ohc ^¡digame! 15:53, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

It also appears the Polish wikipedia has two pages for its 2020 presidential election, including the postponed first round (pl:Wybory prezydenckie w Polsce w 2020 roku (pierwsze)). There are precedents on Wikipedia of annulled elections having their own pages, and the 2020 and 2021 Hong Kong elections are technically distinct. Julio974◆ (Talk-Contribs) 16:08, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

I would suggest the title "Postponement of the 2020 Hong Kong legislative election", since the tone is more official, and keep the content as less overlapping with "2021 Hong Kong legislative election" as possible. I suggest the content can heavily focus on the "for" and "against" of the postponement, the political reasons/calculation, the legality, the NPCSC decision, the international responses and subsequent ramifications. For the DQ article, I think it would be a totally different direction and I would prefer to keep them as separate articles. Lmmnhn (talk) 16:40, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

The content of the "Postponement of the 2020 Hong Kong legislative election" article could include the following:

• Background: third wave of COVID-19 outbreak;
• Pre-election events: DC election, national security law, pro-democracy primaries, nominations and disqualification wave;
• Postponement: invoking the Emergency Regulations Ordinance;
• Responses: For & Against, Domestic & International;
• NPCSC Decision: Possible extension of the 6th Legislative Council, and
• Other ramifications. Lmmnhn (talk) 16:53, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes, that content list captures much of what is important about the nearly election. I agree that the DQs and Primaries fully merit their own coverage – hat-tip to Lmmnhn for massive work across these and related articles.

But the event itself (not merely its postponement) has significance: the expectations and focus following the Dems sweep at the 2019 District Elections; the hopes and plans for a Legco democratic majority; the career arcs of many politicians: Joshua Wong (first time he’s old enough to stand), the crop of new-district councillor candidates and others: Tiffany Yuen, Lester Shum, Cheng Tat. It is quite possible that this election, even though it never happened, will be seen as the last under the ‘old’ system, heralding very changed approaches from parties, candidates, coordinators (Benny Tai) and indeed the government/Beijing and HK electorate. And that the 2021 poll or whatever happens will feel like the start of a new era. I think we should give full force to this event and its import.

I suggest as a title: “2020 Hong Kong legislative election – not held"

I do recognise that the official word ‘postponed/ment’ is an important starting point, but WP should neutrally capture the notability, and be wary of the government tale that ‘all is fine, just delayed a bit’.

Lmmnhn, I’m ready to let you decide this now. I appreciate your hearing me out, and responding. I know you are pouring much energy into the project and I’ll do everything I can to support that implementation. Cossaxx (talk) 19:35, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

I agree that it has a significance so I hope to emphasise the pre-postponing situation in the background/pre-election events sections, but I do not wish to lean on one side or certain group and put in too much our own analysis which might not be seen as neutral. For example for Joshua Wong, Lester Shum, Tiffany Yuen and etc, I suggest the significance to them can be talked on their individual articles. As for the title, I still believe "Postponement of the 2020 Hong Kong legislative election" is a better option as it is more in line with the common naming of an article on wikipedia. But thanks so much for your input and concern on this. It is great to have a thoughtful discussion with mutual respect which is sometimes difficult to make it happen. Lmmnhn (talk) 02:45, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Lmmnhn for implementing, at Postponement of the 2020 Hong Kong legislative election. - Cossaxx (talk) 08:43, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Infobox

I am finding the infobox here confusing. It shows parties' results at the last election, as is the norm for forthcoming elections. However, the system is radically changed, so the seat numbers look weird. Also, anti-Beijing parties from last time aren't shown, presumably because they aren't competing...? So, I understand the logic behind the infobox, but without a lot of context (which is in the article, but not apparent if you just look at the infobox), it is confusing and perhaps misleading. Could we do something? Maybe add footnotes...? Bondegezou (talk) 09:40, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

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Nonpartisan vs Independent

Does anyone know if there is a difference between Nonpartisan and Independent politicians in this election? I am not sure if this difference is significant in the local context. -- NYKTNE _(talk) 16:47, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

It just follows the candidates' self-claimed affiliation according to the official website. FumiHayashi (talk) 00:53, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. Cheers. -- NYKTNE _(talk) 11:58, 30 November 2021 (UTC)