Talk:2022 Memphis shootings

Victim naming

Hello there! I'm a new writer here to wikipedia and am trying my best. It appears we need "talk page consensus" on victims?

If so, I have confirmed two of the victims this terrible events. Both confirmation are by family members, Facebook page., the daughter of the Autozone man and father of Corteria Wright. Jerik.mitchell (talk) 08:55, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

The need for consensus is not based on sources. Rather, some editors believe that the naming of non-notable victims does not benefit the reader, while others believe that if the perp is named, then the victims should be too. WWGB (talk) 09:46, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

oh okay, so do we just agree on to incorporate the victim names or not? if so, i vote we do Jerik.mitchell (talk) 09:56, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

I also vote we do. Silent-Rains (talk) 11:05, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

A reason for inclusion would help to understand your positions. WWGB (talk) 11:24, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Oh okay, I believe we should include the victims because in this day and age, shooter a devolping a thurst for media attention, and by leaving victims excluded and only perpetrators listed, it brings more attention to the creators of such hateful acts. Without victim representatin at every corner we leave another "corner" open to reclamation by hateful individuals. Jerik.mitchell (talk) 12:01, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

The victims' names shouldn't be included because of privacy concerns for surviving victims & families of those killed. Also, names don't help readers to understand what happened. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 12:19, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Privacy concerns? It's not like we're publshing their home adress. Also as long as we only update and publish after the mainstream media recieves news then it's stuff that's already pretty public, and you're right names dont understand what happened but the story is so much more than WHAT. it's what, when where, why, and WHO. Jerik.mitchell (talk) 12:41, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

The victims appear to have been strangers to him, so their names aren't relevant. Knowing their genders (& perhaps ages) is sufficient for the who part of the five Ws. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 13:58, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

I would agree with inclding names once a consensus is reached. We would need a third party news source, rather than just family or Facebook confirmations. WikiVirusC^(talk) 16:18, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

@Jerik.mitchell I vote we add the names, we are not supposed to be biased like the news. Too much attention is always placed on the murderers rather than the victims. Hti143 (talk) 09:01, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

The victims were not notable in life and were the random victims of a shooting attack. Their names would be meaningless to almost all readers. The perp achieves notoriety by his heinous actions. The victims remain unknown. WWGB (talk) 10:17, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Mass shooting?

Was this spree shooting also a mass shooting? A small number (such as the Nakhon Ratchasima shootings) are both, but in this case the attacker was on the move throughout, shooting one person at each location. Although all the shootings took place within the same city, none of them happened at the exact same location. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 13:58, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

@Jim Michael 2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shooting?wprov=sfla1 Spencer.justin (talk) 21:13, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

This meets the definition of mass shooting, according to the Wikipedia article. Its also the definition of the department of justice: https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/advancing-mass-shooting-research-inform-practice Hti143 (talk) 08:17, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Mentioning race

Unless it's actually related to the offence (e.g. the offender was targeting those of a different race), then there is no need to mention the race of the offender (for example the Ted Bundy article does not note that he is white). He also has two eyes and two feet and numerous internal organs but we don't have to note that in the article. ... discospinster _talk 17:00, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree. Your assertion that "He also has two eyes and two feet and numerous internal organs" is a strawman, none of those are a demographic. The Ted Bundy article SHOULD have his race, as its relevant demographic information.

In addition, Mr. Kelly referred to the Hispanic male he shot in the Autozone as "cracker", thus introducing race into the relevant discussion of this incident.

Like it or not, Race is an identifying demographic. 174.203.240.133 (talk) 04:18, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

— 174.203.240.133 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. . WWGB (talk) 10:28, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Do you have a reliable source reporting that Kelly used the term “cracker” against a white person? WWGB (talk) 05:05, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Yep, literally in the livestream. However, the video is hosted on a site not appropriate for wikipedia linkage — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.203.240.133 (talk) 06:31, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

In other words, it is not available in any reliable source that can be published in Wikipedia to support your assertion? Not looking good for your case ... WWGB (talk) 06:45, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

It CAN be linked, it's just extremely graphic and in my opinion not appropriate to link to Wikipedia. 174.203.240.133 (talk) 08:45, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

I second this in agreement, if such pejorative was used, then the inclusion of race fits. There is no malice in that. BioticusEdits (talk) 13:07, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

I Agree with User:discospinster. The offender's race seems irrelevant here. The page isn't about the person, it's about the event. Ramdac (talk) 05:33, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

The users race is relevant and there is no malice in including it. The Ted Bundy article is a poor comparison as Bundy is infamous and well known. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69WikiWarrior69 (talk • contribs) 07:35, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

— 69WikiWarrior69 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. . WWGB (talk) 07:42, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

It's not clear why Bundy's fame should make a difference in whether or not his race is mentioned? Or why it is relevant in this article and not the Bundy article. ... discospinster _talk 15:10, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

The shooter targeted white people explicitly, he said that's what he was doing in his live streams which I watched the night it happened. Given that it was a racial attack against white people mentioning the shooters race is obviously relevant.

Summary

In the above discussion:

• two editors (both single-purpose accounts) want the race of the accused to be included
• one editor wants the race included only if there is evidence (not provided) that the accused used a racial slur
• two editors do not want the race of the accused to be included.

There appears to be no consensus to include the race of the accused. WWGB (talk) 10:37, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

As already noted by another user, there is video of Mr. Kelly referring to his victim by a racial slur but due to the graphic nature of the website it is less than appropriate for Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1004:B06C:84FA:1D0:B7BD:CD65:7DDF (talk) 19:28, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Then there should be some reliable source that reports on this racial slur, that we can link to? ... discospinster _talk 01:02, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Yes, please link that website here so we can all assess it. WWGB (talk) 01:34, 18 October 2022 (UTC)