Talk:2022 Tour de France Femmes

Map

Well, I asked Andrei Loas who does the excellent TDF maps, but he hasn't got back to me. So I've requested one. If anyone is a dab hand at map making, let Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Map workshop know! Turini2 (talk) 17:28, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

Map has been done, and now added to article. Kiwipete (talk) 18:56, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Wonderful! Turini2 (talk) 20:38, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Route and stages

The section comments on reaction to the length, and the need to waive restrictions, without explicitly saying what the length was and what figures exceeded the restrictions. The info may be available in infobox etc, but would be useful in this section. PamD 08:06, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

@PamD - is this what you mean: "Women's WorldTour races have a maximum stage length of 160 kilometres (99 mi) and a maximum race length of six days"? Kiwipete (talk) 09:16, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

@Kiwipete: That and "The overall length of the event was also met with agreement, with some teams noting that they do not "yet have the staff or numbers ... for a three-week event."" - so how long, in distance and days, is this race? PamD 09:19, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

@PamD - I see what you mean. The distance and days are indeed in the infobox, but also the "Stage characteristics" table in this section has them. This article closely follows the equivalent article for the men's tour. Kiwipete (talk) 09:26, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

@Kiwipete: It just seems to me that that section would make much more sense to the uninformed reader if it included the figures being discussed. I'm not a cycling expert, just dropped by to look at the article after it was mentioned at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Women_in_Red#Tour_de_France_Femmes. PamD 09:33, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Have a look at the change I've just made. Let me know if this is what you're looking for :) Kiwipete (talk) 09:50, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, looks good: I've made one more addition, to provide context for the comment about restriction on stage length (or it could go into that later sentence if you think it makes its current place too cluttered). PamD 13:27, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Finishing up this article

I'll have a go at finishing the race summary later, I think we need a few photos (I think there's one of van Vlueten in the yellow jersey), and I hope there's some references about the event being successful etc. Turini2 (talk) 15:58, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Think I'm done, feedback welcome! Turini2 (talk) 21:30, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Many thanks Turini2, as I mentioned on the WP Cycling page a lot of the holdup was just getting the account of the race and citing all tables in order and not on the newsworthiness of the article. Let's push to get these done during the race next year for the sake of alacrity. Omnifalcon (talk) 15:08, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

high five Turini2 (talk) 15:12, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Just dealt with the last red linked rider too - Mischa Bredewold! Turini2 (talk) 20:23, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:2022 Tour de France Femmes/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Grnrchst (talk · contribs) 10:11, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

I'll take this on. --Grnrchst (talk) 10:11, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks @Grnrchst - I'll take a look at this over the weekend. Your hard work is much appreciated! Turini2 (talk) 10:13, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Have actioned the references point as a start - will do a final run through closer to the end of my edits. Turini2 (talk) 10:20, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

@Grnrchst I think that's done - but I might need to do a final run through tomorrow if that's okay - to make sure I haven't missed anything. Take a look at my comments below :) Turini2 (talk) 20:37, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

@Turini2: Aye you seem to have addressed everything quite nicely! Thanks for taking the time and being so thorough. Let me know when you've done your final run through and I can pass this. :) Nice work. -- Grnrchst (talk) 08:09, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

@Grnrchst I think I'm done here, thanks for your efforts on this! Turini2 (talk) 07:13, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

@Grnrchst One final tiny thing - can you change your overall comment at the end of the review? Thanks again for your help! Turini2 (talk) 07:48, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Done! -- Grnrchst (talk) 07:53, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Teams

• Is there any reason that the three best UCI continental teams are specified by name, but none of the other teams are? Consider removing for consistency.
• Replace the dash "–" after continental teams with a colon ":".
• Maybe move the announcement date of the teams to the beginning? It reads weird to say they were announced after already listing the teams.
• Copy edit the final sentence. Something like "At the start of the race, there were 144 riders of 25 different nationalities, the largest percentage of whom were Dutch (20% of the peloton)." or something similar.
  • 1 - To show the three teams that were automatically invited, compared to the teams that were invited by the organiser.
  • 2-4 - actioned.Turini2 (talk) 20:08, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Route and stages

• I think you could just say "eight consecutive days of racing" instead of including the bracketed detail about the lack of a rest day.
• "(including the longest, stage 5, of 175.6 km (109.1 mi))" I don't think you need to specify the exact length of the stage, given that's already in the table below. Just mentioning it's the longest one is fine.
• "The route was welcomed [...]" Why? It doesn't say.
• "The overall length of the event was also met with agreement" Cited source says that there was initial disagreement over the length, but that's not mentioned.
• It's worth mentioning why the restrictions were criticised as sexist, rather than just saying that they were. Their reasoning that "UCI and ASO still uphold the belief that women cannot complete the same distance as men, and are therefore regulated to shorter distances" is an important detail.
  • 1-2 actioned
  • 3 actioned - slight expansion
  • 4 - My read of that is disappointment that the race isn't three weeks (like the men's race) - and it would be a bit too much info to include.
  • 5 - actioned Turini2 (talk) 20:08, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Race overview

• Link to General classification in the Tour de France and Points classification in the Tour de France for clarity.
• Words to Watch: "However," This should be removed.
• Maybe switch the order of the sentences about the ASO's reaction and the Cyclists Alliance response.
  • 1 - the reason I didn't, as the current articles are all about the mens editions. Actioned.
  • 2-3 actioned Turini2 (talk) 20:33, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Early stages

• "final stage of the men's Tour" this was already mentioned in the previous section. Remove one of them, in order to cut down on repetition.
• Try to be consistent about language used. This sentence switches between "maillot jaune" and "yellow jersey" without explicitly linking the two. I'd say either use one or the other (preferably the English language version), or at least clarify that "maillot jaune" is French for "yellow jersey". (I'll note "green jersey" is used uniformly)
• "rolling terrain" what does this mean?
• Move the abbreviation "(GC)" up to the first use of "general classification".
• "QOM classification" Needs to be clarified what this classification is, along with "general" and "points". Also worth linking to Mountains classification in the Tour de France, as per above.
• No need to mention "chemin blanc", as it's not used elsewhere in the article. "Gravel" is uniformly used.
• "other mechanicals" Is this maybe supposed to say "other mechanical problems" or "other mechanical issues"?
• "after a mechanical" Does this mean she was repairing her bike?
• "having to abandon" Should this say "having to abandon the race" or something similar?
  • 1 - I think both are useful, if that's okay?
  • 2 - This is common in the Tour de France articles, but I'll clarify
  • 3 - uh, undulating - constantly up and down over gentle slopes? There's no wikipedia article, it's just a geographical description.
  • 4 - done
  • 5 - done
  • 6 - more french language creeping in, as in common with this race. Have amended.
  • 7-8 - "Mechanical - An issue with the bike, which can result in rider abandoning the race if the issue isn't fixed. When a rider throws/drops his or her chain or has their seatpost loosen they have suffered 'a mechanical'." Do I need to reference to the glossary of cycling terms?
  • 9 - abandon - another cycling term to "leave the race" Turini2 (talk) 20:33, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

  Yes, I think referencing the glossary of cycling terms would be best practice. It's just a way to clarify the specialist language for casual readers. Thanks for looking at this. -- Grnrchst (talk) 08:07, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Mountain stages

• "Stages 7 and 8 took place [...]" Source?
• Maybe link to Glossary of cycling#Q for "queen stage"
• "an average of 8.7 percent" Is this referring to incline?
• "Much like stage 7 of the men's edition," Is this necessary to include? I think this detail could be cut.
• Another use of the term "mechanical", please clarify.
  • 1 - Have used route citation for this.
  • 2 - Have done so.
  • 3 - yes, have actioned.
  • 4 - Useful comparator to the 2022 edition, but I can remove if you think it's better. Turini2 (talk) 20:33, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

  Aye, I don't think the point of comparison is necessary here. -- Grnrchst (talk) 08:08, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Summary

• No notes, all good.
  • great! Turini2 (talk) 20:33, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Classification leadership

• No notes.

Final classification standings

• No notes.

Broadcasting

• No notes.

Check list

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

---

Very well made article that I learnt a lot from and enjoyed reading. Seems like most of the issues I have come from unclear specialist language, but these could be fixed with some minor clarifications or wikilinks.

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a. (prose, spelling, and grammar):

   Some prose issues here and there, mostly involving clarity, but nothing a little minor clarifications and copy-editing can't fix.

   b. (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   A few cases of "However," that should be dealt with.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a. (reference section):

   Some of the references (e.g. [7] The Guardian (14 October 2021), etc.) are incomplete, either not referencing the author's name or the date of publication. Double check that the references are all fully cited.

   b. (citations to reliable sources):

   Everything is cited to reliable sources. Quotes and controversial statements are properly attributed and sourced.

   c. (OR):

   d. (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a. (major aspects):

   b. (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

   Stable for at least half a year.

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a. (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales):

   Every image is original work, mostly licensed through Creative Commons Attribution, but some with share-alike.

   b. (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   Alt text is currently only provided for the image in the infobox. Alt text should be provided for each of the images, to the best of your ability.

7. Overall:

   Pass/fail:

   Holding for now, mostly due to clarification issues with the prose. Ping me once these have been addressed. Passed.

(Criteria marked are unassessed)

Van Vleuten's surname

@PeeJay - first you were bold, then @Turini2 reverted you, so now you should follow WP:BRD and open a discussion here about whether or not to capitalise "van". Kiwipete (talk) 23:03, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

The discussion took place on my talk page, thanks to @Turini2 for opening it immediately after reverting me. I have explained the grammar rule that should be followed, but just in case you don't want to click through to my talk page, I suggest you take a look at tussenvoegsel. The relevant passage reads "the tussenvoegsel in a surname is written with a capital letter only when it starts a sentence or is not preceded by a first name or initial". Hope that helps. – PeeJay 23:07, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Setting the record straight

2022 was NOT the first Women’s Tour de France, 1984 was and it continued through 1989. Please make this factual correction. Thank you! 47.149.117.55 (talk) 23:52, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

@47.149.117.55 Hello, the organisers ASO have referred to this event as the "first Tour de France Femmes" - so that's why the article says that. The article also links to Grande Boucle Féminine Internationale - which has information on the variety of similar events (some with Tour de France Feminin names) that were run in the 1980s. Turini2 (talk) 07:32, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

In reply to this - I've added a reference of ASO calling the event "The 1st edition of the Tour de France Femmes avec Zwift" Turini2 (talk) 20:44, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

With thanks to the WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors

@Reidgreg of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors did excellent work copy editing this article, relevant notes from said work can be found here: User talk:Turini2#Copyedit notes for 2022 Tour de France Femmes

Thanks again, Reidgreg! Turini2 (talk) 16:56, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Inappropriate national flag use

Per MOS:SPORTFLAG, ... flags should only indicate the sportsperson's national squad/team or representative nationality. Where flags are used in a table, it should clearly indicate that they correspond to representative nationality, not legal nationality, if any confusion might arise. It is my understanding that in the TDF, riders represent their corporate teams, not their national teams. If that is the case, the flags should be removed per MOS. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:58, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

As has been discussed at length before (e.g. Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Icons/Archive 11) this is not followed in a variety of sports including Formula 1, cycling, golf and others - where people compete in a non-representative way. Every cycling article I can think of (e.g. FA 2012 Tour de France) has the nationality of the rider as well as the team name. To alter this would go against established consensus of a very large number of articles. Turini2 (talk) 11:22, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

MOS:SPORTSFLAG has been edited following the established consensus, and this matter is therefore resolved. Turini2 (talk) 17:08, 31 August 2024 (UTC)