Talk:2023 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix

Rain Concern

Should we get some more Information about the Rain concerns? I'm reading some information that the Race could be cancelled. Happiness is Simple (talk) 23:54, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm also thinking about adding such information, sourcing from:

• [1]
• [2]
• [3]

Ahead of the Grand Prix on 16 May 2023, the paddock was evacuated due to a threat of flooding. Such concerns were raised after the Italian Protezione Civile issued a weather red alert for the Emilia-Romagna region.

FearfulWarpII (talk) 02:59, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

I like the idea. Let's wait for further information soon. --Happiness is Simple (talk) 06:58, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Have just added such to the weekend overview section - that will be updated as more info pops by. FearfulWarpII (talk) 10:30, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

So it's confirm now that the Grand Prix is cancelled due to the Further Heavy Rain and Floods. They'll be heading to Monaco for now. --Happiness is Simple (talk) 15:57, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Cancellations

copied from my talk page:

“ The official last one was AUS 2020. The Chinese Grand Prix was removed from the calendar before the start of the season, as well as Russia in 2022. They were not cancelled, but stripped from the calendar. Island92 (talk) 19:32, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Template:F1GP 2020–2029 this helps.--Island92 (talk) 19:35, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

”

@Island92: Perhaps you should read our own articles on the matter, 2022 Formula One season and 2023 Formula One season both say cancelled. True, they were removed before the start of the season, but the sources I used and our own articles on the seasons say "cancelled". When I wrote, that the Chinese GP had be removed from the schedule earlier, you also removed that, without my saying "cancelled", so I don't see why you removed that either. It is the last event that affected the 2023 schedule. Further, you cannot use a 3 year old source to say it is the last race to be cancelled, you must use a 2023 source that includes Imola to say that the Aussie GP was the last race to be cancelled, otherwise it is WP:SYNTHESIS, which is not allowed. -- 64.229.90.172 (talk) 19:50, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Those events were removed from the calendar. Formula One personnel never appeared on the paddock. Formula One personnel appeared on the paddock in 2020 AUS and here. The official last one cancelled is the 2020 Australian Grand Prix.--Island92 (talk) 20:04, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

You are using a personal definition of cancelled then? I was using the sources attached to the statements, where the term "cancelled"/"cancellation" occurs in the text of the source. Where does "cancellation" have to occur with personnel at the track? That doesn't happen in other sports, the IIHF announced cancellations months before tournaments with "cancellation" and the IIHF president saying that during the last 3 years. As have other sports.

Further, it doesn't change the fact that the removal of the Chinese grand prix left a previous hole in the schedule, which you had removed (when I didn't say "cancelled" but said "removed"), saying it wasn't in the source, but the source does state that the Chinese GP was cancelled affecting the schedule with a long break.

You also cannot use a 3-year-old source to say it was the last cancellation, since a 3 year old source cannot attest to any event after it is published, so any cancellation after 2020 Aussie would not be recorded in that source. A source after the 2023 Imola cancellation saying that the 2020 Aussie was the last cancellation would be needed to verify that fact. It fails WP:V -- verifiability

In any case, we already have sources stating that the 2022 Russian Grand Prix [4] and the 2023 Chinese Grand Prix [5] were cancellations

-- 64.229.90.172 (talk) 20:18, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Added source that explains 2020 AUS notably the last race cancelled, with people there. 2022 RUS and 2023 CHN cancelled, but such a long time ago before being held.--Island92 (talk) 20:22, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

That source [6] says that the last cancellation was the 2023 Chinese Grand Prix not the 2020 Aussie, which is says is a notable cancellation. Your text says it is the last cancellation, which does not match what the source says. -- 64.229.90.172 (talk) 20:26, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

We follow Template:F1GP 2020–2029 with wikilinks. The last one cancelled is 2020 AUS with its article. We do not have an own 2023 Chinese Grand Prix article, as well as 2022 Russian Grand Prix. These events cancellations are reported in the prose in main page. I repait again. Formula One personnel never appeared on the paddock for these two Grands Prix, compared to 2020 AUS and 2023 EMI. The last one formally cancelled 2020 AUS.--Island92 (talk) 20:35, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

That's just a list of race report articles, not a statement of fact. Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a reliable source -- Wikipedia cannot be used as a source of facts in Wikipedia articles. Your statement seems to indicate that Wikipedia should be used as a source for writing articles. WP:Verifiabilty is not achieved when the statement is directly contradicted by the source, which is what the current source is saying (last cancel 2023 CHN, stated in the current source). The last high profile cancellation is likely the 2022 RUS, the last cancellation with personnel at the track is 2020 AUS, but that isn't what your statement is saying. It should say that (last cancel with people at track) and have a source to back it up. The current source doesn't say that, and your statement doesn't restrict cancellation to one with personnel already deployed. I personally would no longer have a problem if you changed the statement to say that it was the last cancellation to occur with people already at the track. However, indicating the last cancellation (2023 CHN) should probably also be stated. And perhaps the 2022 RUS cancel would be elucidating to the readership. -- 64.229.90.172 (talk) 20:47, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Source.--Island92 (talk) 21:09, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Ok. That satisfies WP:V and is no longer WP:SYN. Now, we just have the situation of various WP:RS conflicting about what they say, which is a normal situation in the world. -- 64.229.90.172 (talk) 21:22, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

That source says that 2020 AUS was the last Grand Prix to be "called off" which is subtly different to "cancelled".

Secondly, the sentence is misleading, because most sources would consider the 2023 Chinese Grand Prix to be cancelled [7], along with 2022 Russian, and 2022 Chinese, 2021 Chinese, and even 2020 Azerbaijan.

Because the vast majority of sources have written that these events are cancelled, we should follow what most sources say. Or we should just remove the sentence because it is contenious and is frankly little more than trivia - it is not an important fact.

Thirdly, if you want to mention 2020 AUS, we will need to specify the condition you attach to the word "cancelled", that it was cancelled once race personnel and equipment arrivied. But again, I don't think this is relevent - as they were cancelled for completely different reasons. SSSB (talk) 19:57, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

2020 AUS is the most iconic race cancelled the last, before this one. Others called off before even the season began or with members not in the paddock. 2020 AUS reports in prose 2011 BHR the last race called off before that. Why can't we do that here? Island92 (talk) 11:58, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Because that is true. The last race cancelled before this event was the 2023 Chinese Grand Prix - no matter how you try and spin this. "Iconic" or "notable" are irrelevant. This strange "stuff in the paddock" condition you try to attach to these things makes no sense and is largely unjustified. If you want to specify the last event cancelled before this one, it should be the 2023 Chinese Grand Prix. And for what its worth - 2011 Bahrain more closely matches China 2023 than 2020 Australia. SSSB (talk) 21:41, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

"Cancelled" may refer sometimes to the fact that that Grand Prix will not take place throughout a season, that's why it's less common by F1 to declare 2023 Chinese Grand Prix or 2022 Russian Grand Prix called off. It refers to simply Chinese Grand Prix won't be held, as explained in prose. But there is not doubt in my opinion that 2020 AUS is the last one with relevance.Island92 (talk) 16:29, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

There is no doubt in my mind either that 2020 Australia is more relevant that 2023 China, or 2022 Russia, but that does not mean you can change the definition of the word "cancelled". Those two events were cancelled no matter how you try to spin this, and even if they weren't, I still see no grounds to specify that here. SSSB (talk) 19:47, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Edit warring

@XY League: please revert this edit [8] and start a discussion. You are currently edit warring. As I mentioned on your talk page, issues include:

• WP:OVERLINKing
• Overly long, run-on sentences.
• Uncited, extraneous, WP:UNDUE-emphasis details, sometimes WP:HIJACKing existing sources.

Cerebral726 (talk) 19:17, 2 November 2023 (UTC)