Talk:2024 Dagestan attacks

Did ISIL do the attack?

As found on local channels on telegram, official ISIL media made a statement in relation to the attacks. Do you believe that is enough to confirm that they were behind the attacks? TheLibyanGuy (talk) 19:24, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

I cannot provide a direct source tho. I am convinced that ISIL are behind the attacks. TheLibyanGuy (talk) 19:41, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

There were no official ISIS statements yet from what I've seen. Jebotiacimmater (talk) 22:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

The Russian wing of the al-ʿAzāʾim Foundation for Media Production has tacitly claimed responsibility for the attacks in Derbent and Makhachkala areas, in Dagestan region of Russia. Nothing from Amaq as of yet. Jebotiacimmater (talk) 22:32, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

while yes we still have yet to hear from Amaq, it is still very likely that ISIL is behind the attacks. TheLibyanGuy (talk) 22:34, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, it's most likely IS. Well coordinated, well equipped and well indoctrinated. Jebotiacimmater (talk) 22:49, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

ISKP to be more precise. TheLibyanGuy (talk) 23:42, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Nah, its in IS-Caucasus Province´s area of operation and all the attackers are local (not Central Asian) so it was most likely them, but it could have had assistance from IS-KP. Also apparently at least one of the attackers had connections in Turkey, which could mean IS-Turkey Province is also involved (similarly to the Crocus attack). Alexander141104 (talk) 00:53, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Fair points, but I was judging from the telegram channels that first reported the attacks. TheLibyanGuy (talk) 01:02, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

There are reports of another security situation in Makhachkala right now, heavy police presence, shots fired, and apparently 2 gunmen. This could be related to Sunday´s attacks and could be the reason why nobody has claimed the attacks yet Alexander141104 (talk) 20:02, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

False alarm, there was also a false bomb threat in Derbent today Alexander141104 (talk) 20:20, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

There could be many reasons why no one has claimed responsibility yet. TheLibyanGuy (talk) 20:34, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Yup, only time will tell Alexander141104 (talk) 21:25, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

99.99999999% chance that it’s them even tho no one claimed it yet (ISCP). TheLibyanGuy (talk) 02:30, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

last nights issue of IS´s weekly newsletter Al-Naba just mentioned the Dagestan attackers (23/6/2024), Israeli embassy in Belgrade attacker (29/6/2024), and Zurich stabbing attacker (2/3/2024), as IS supporters in an article detecated to them, along with the attackers behind the IS-claimed attacks in Moscow (22/3/2024) and Brussels (16/10/2023) Alexander141104 (talk) 12:34, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

“They are from us and we are from them” couldn’t be more obvious. TheLibyanGuy (talk) 12:58, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Read what I said. I think I have the photo coming from official ISIL media outlets. The photo likely refers to the attacks (“Set fire to the towns of the crusaders and the Jews and make them one of the fiery towns”). TheLibyanGuy (talk) 22:32, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Sadly one of my most valuable media sites got seized/taken down/broken so I cannot confirm anything, however, it seems to be a typical call for jihad. Similar posters are made by IS supporters(Ansar) and get forwarded on larger media channels like al-Raud(archive) and Halummu(translation). Jebotiacimmater (talk) 22:48, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

This is from Al-Azim, which is connected to IS, but isnt one of its official media units (Al-Furqan, Al-Hayat, AMAQ, Nashir, etc.), and im pretty sure this was posted yesterday and is the statement which the Russian al-Azim media wing is referring to when they say the Dagestan attackers answered the groups call. We´ll have to wait until at least tomorrow, to see if they claim it through Nashir and AMAQ, or maybe even (but very unlikely) until Thursday if they decide to claim the attacks as "exclusives" in their Al-Naba newsletter Alexander141104 (talk) 01:00, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

al-Azaim isn’t part of Islamic State’s central media diwan that is producing things like Al-Naba. al-Azaim, however, is ‘controlled by the mujahideen in Khurasan’, that being ISKP. Thanks Aymen. Jebotiacimmater (talk) 16:27, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

If it is coming from Amaq and Naba - claiming responsibility for the attacks, can it be concluded that ISIS did the attack? this is from my local tg channel TheLibyanGuy (talk) 01:25, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Interestingly the picture on the an-Naba newspaper is from a public video. It's easy to just take screenshots.

Serbian guy did give bay'ah though and was put on Amaq so...

Both COULD be IS. Jebotiacimmater (talk) 00:15, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

This comes up in every attack like this. We stick to what is verified, what we can prove, and what reliable sources say. This means we hold off and don't post speculation. Investigators will come out with their conclusions at some point. Harizotoh9 (talk) 06:41, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Undiscussed move to "terrorist attack"

@Altenmann: Not even 9/11 attack page is called a terrorist attack. Please revert your undiscussed moves on both this page and Crocus City Hall attack Ecrusized (talk) 23:09, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Thats Not NPOV49.205.144.221 (talk) 03:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Should the nice attack have been called nice clashes too? Kasperquickly (talk) 06:19, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

How many Synagogues were attacked?

On the second sentence of the Lead,it says "A synagogue and two Eastern Orthodox churches in Derbent were attacked, and a synagogue and road police post were attacked in Makhachkala simultaneously."

Synagogue in Derbent and also another one in Makhachkala? It implies two different Synagogues. It needs clarification. I am adding the tag. Wår (talk) 13:47, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Magomed Omarov (politician russian)

Hello, an article Magomed Omarov (politician russian) should be created about this Russian official and his possible involvement and that of his son and two nephews. This has reached a revealing level in all Russian politics at a national and international level. He was also expelled from the United Russia political group, otherwise Had it been for this man, perhaps the Kremlin would have used this to attack Ukraine and Ukrainian Intelligence as it usually does.--User.shanie6 (talk) 15:38, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

As a Wikipedia editor, you are welcome to create such an article, referencing reliable sources. Celjski Grad (talk) 15:50, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

We don't have crystal balls, and we don't know if the sources warrant it. It's entirely possible we can summarize this entirely within this article. We should wait. Harizotoh9 (talk) 05:41, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 23 June 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved, WP:SNOW (non-admin closure) Ecrusized (talk) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

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2024 Dagestan attack → 2024 Dagestan clashes – The attacks in Dagestan later turned into clashes with the police and attackers. But there is another issue: multiple other attacks have occurred amidst the initial attack in Dagestan, which are likely connected to the attacks in Dagestan, and as a result, I’m not sure if those attacks can be mentioned. TheLibyanGuy (talk) 23:38, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

• support - this was an extended incident, not to say there multiple attacks, not just "attack" - Altenmann >talk 00:02, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

• Propose "2024 Dagestan attacks". "Attack" doesn't preclude clashes, and I'd argue "clashes" is not the WP:COMMONNAME term. It also reads weaker, like a protest/civil conflict instead of gun battles. 211.43.120.242 (talk) 00:16, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Clashed were not during but after attacks when terrorists were chased to their lair. - Altenmann >talk 00:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

That’s also what I could have had in mind. But because there was persistent fighting after the initial attacks, I wondered if they should be considered clashes. TheLibyanGuy (talk) 00:24, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Flip through Category:Terrorist incidents in 2024. Plenty of these are described as "attacks", but also included extended clashes. Furthermore, "attack" appears to be the COMMONNAME; COMMONNAME is arguably more important than any of our reasoning. Cautioning against applying our own reasoning to this title; amounts to WP:ORIGINALRESEARCH. We should follow what the sources are saying. 211.43.120.242 (talk) 00:50, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, the Paris attacks (specifically at Bataclan) turned into clashes, and that goes for most other IS (as well as Al-Shabaab) Commando ("inghimasi") attacks across the globe. Alexander141104 (talk) 01:03, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. The main subject of these attacks in media reports has been the attacks on the synagogue and the churches. The clashes with the police officers all began with coordinated attacks on them by the IS militants as well. Renaming attacks into clashes makes it seem like a battle instead of a campaign of attacks that resulted in some firefights between Russian security services and IS-Kavkaz guys, and attacks also encompasses the synagogue burning and church attacks. Jebiguess (talk) 00:19, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Ok, but it resorted to some sort of clashes. TheLibyanGuy (talk) 00:22, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Yeah you know what, I think 2024 Dagestan attacks is a better title than “clashes”; do you think this discussion can be closed with this page being changed to 2024 Dagestan attacks? TheLibyanGuy (talk) 00:47, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

That's not really how move discussions work. It's not dependent on the opener of the discussion conceding a point; we have to wait at least the normal amount of time. For all we know, someone with an even better title can come along and everyone can shift to supporting that one. 211.43.120.242 (talk) 00:53, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose.:I oppose a transfer In the Russian media RT (TV network) it is said that it was a terrorist attack, it is also mentioned in the Russian version and in Spanish so it remains a terrorist attack https://www.rt.com/russia/599852- dagestan-terrorist-attacks-recap/ User.shanie6 (talk) 02:00, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose—all sources clearly indicate it was "attack", possibly premeditated/planned/coordinated; possibly with or without other cities/places; possibly a terrorist attack (even though Wikipedia practice is to avoid that word in a name for various good reasons. It is not mere "clashes", even though some street-level clashes may come, or may soon come. —N2e (talk) 02:11, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

  Please note that I’ve changed my mind. Idk if I can change my request. TheLibyanGuy (talk) 02:12, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose: reasons listed above Castroonthemoon (talk) 02:22, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Terrorist attacks on civilians are not "clashes." Huh? Changing attack to attacks would be suitable though.Ironmatic1 (talk) 02:37, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose and, considering there were two simultaneous attacks in two cities, it should be renamed to 2024 Dagestan attacks. Johndavies837 (talk) 02:46, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose The current title is more consistent with the sources. Changing it to incorporate the word "Clashes" will muddle things and confuse readers and most people can't find it during search. Wår (talk) 05:00, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose - move to 2024 Dagestan attacks; clashes implies that there were two armed sides fighting, when in fact the attackers first attacked unarmed civilians and religious institutions. Jaguarnik (talk) 05:48, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose We hBe historically called islamist terrorist attacks targeting civilians and first responders attacks and not 'clashes' or 'jihads' or 'freedom fighting incidents' Kasperquickly (talk) 06:21, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose: The initiative was clearly and primarily on the perpetrators. Borgenland (talk) 07:38, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose: but agree w the above comment that it should be plural. 2603:7000:2101:AA00:951C:542B:7B33:1FC9 (talk) 09:02, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

(non-admin closure)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The priest's throat was not slit. Confirmed by his widow

His Wikipedia page says he was shot and his throat wasn't slit, confirmed by his widow Deus vult fratres! (talk) 19:46, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 1 July 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Favonian (talk) 20:56, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

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2024 Dagestan attack → 2024 Dagestan attacks – plural 2A00:23EE:10A0:4AC6:348:7E4:C84C:A508 (talk) 20:55, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support Jaguarnik (talk) 18:14, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support as, after all, there were multiple attacks, not just one. Gödel2200 (talk) 01:29, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support per Godel. Borgenland (talk) 03:42, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support Multiple simultaneous "attacks" indeed took place.

  Wår (talk) 05:45, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.