Talk:2024 Israeli municipal elections

Too Many Sections

I disagree with the too many sections tag placed on this page. The number of sections directly corresponds with the number of municipal authorities in Israel, similar to (smaller) pages like 2022 New Brunswick municipal elections, with a handful of additional sections for election conduct, and one for municipalities with off-year or no elections. Id like to get a discussion going so we could potentially remove the tag (or reduce the number of sections). I'll note ahead of time that i think condensing this page into a table is impractical. It was tried with 2018 Israeli municipal elections, but the table is minimally cited, half-finished and provides practically no context for individual elections. Totalstgamer (talk) 10:06, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

"Very short sections and subsections clutter an article with headings and inhibit the flow of the prose. Short paragraphs and single sentences generally do not warrant their own subheading." MOS:OVERSECTION

I would suggest that 2022 New Brunswick municipal elections is over-sectioned and that style is unsustainable (see this article). I think they can get away with it for only (and I use "only" very lightly here) having 30 sections. At least there, I can see the entire TOC on one computer screen. Here, the TOC alone takes up more than six and a half computer screens to scroll through. There are 257 sections. Are the TOC and section formatting really helping at that point?

Also, just because 2018 Israeli municipal elections is incomplete doesn't mean this article shouldn't have fewer sections. I would point out that this article is far from complete as is with 200 {{citation needed}} tags. On this page, I can get about twelve single-line sections on a screen. I can get more than twice that number of table lines. Anderjef (talk) 15:55, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

This article doesn't exactly have a prose, as of now. Its a list of municipal elections with links to main pages for the big three cities, preceded by some general context. I don't understand how this style is "unsustainable". It makes it particularly easy to find settlements (especially if or when the sections will be rearranged alphaebtically). If anything, this page would be difficult to navigate without a similarly long table of contents, given the number of settlements.

As for this page being incomplete, the difference between this page and the 2018 Israeli municipal elections page is that the 2018 elections have already taken place. Citations are regularly being added, and the page continues to receive updates. The results will certainly be added in October in a similar fashion. I don't understand the relevance of what you're essentially arguing is compactness on a page which effectively consists of several hundred stubs which warrant inclusion on Wikipedia but not (necessarily) their own pages. Totalstgamer (talk) 18:17, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

As to your first point, then why isn't the article formatted as a list? I mean unsustainable in the sense that copying the style used in the New Brunswick article (as I'm sure there are others) doesn't work when (such as here, if not there) there become too many sections which bloat the TOC and page height/length. As for navigation, there's always Ctrl+f if not text fragment linking or {{anchor}}s. Tables, of course, can be organized alphabetically or by other columns at a click. I would hence argue that a table would be more navigable than the existing TOC. Consider how navigation is currently done if someone wants to simply scroll past the TOC, count or identify the highest-level section headings, find the Kafr Qasim section (or whatever heading would end up being #Cities and Local Councils's midpoint) without being able to see at a glance that the TOC contains a #Cities and Local Councils section, or doesn't want to minimize/maximize the TOC (but perhaps wants to read both their location-specific section and #Eligibility or #Background and preparatory measures (the first sections in the body)—it would be faster to scroll to the top of the page and then slightly down (with a short TOC) than either scrolling up and overshooting or looking those sections up in the TOC a second time).

As to your second point, the idea behind MOS:OVERSECTION is that overusing certain article attributes can be detrimental to the article's impact or function. That is my point—in this article, I feel the applied section formatting hinders use of the article unnecessarily. So I'm not saying that the information that is there should be removed (I have not evaluated it on those grounds), but with the number of sections that there are and because of the brevity of those sections, it is creating what I would argue is debilitating clutter to style it the way it is.

Frankly, I'm not interested arguing my point much further. Feel free to revert me if you still think I'm wrong (which of course I don't), though if you decide to, I will add and argue for a {{TOC limit}} which I think will largely defeat the use of the TOC for navigation as you intend.

TL;DR: the TOC, if not the rest of the article, is unusably tall. Anderjef (talk) 19:31, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

I frankly still disagree with you, but i understand not wanting to continue the argument. I'm not going to remove the tag (if that's what you meant), we'll keep the layout as is until there's a clear consensus. Totalstgamer (talk) 19:57, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

How about creating a table? That would eliminate the clutter from so many headings with little text under them. Since the information for each section is pretty standard, it could look like this:

Regional Council	Head	Elected	Notes	References
Al Batuf	Ahed Rahal	2018
Al-Kasom	Salama El Atrash	2018	run-off election

et cetera. Chefallen (talk) 02:29, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

The header would need a lot of sections. Municipal elections also include the city council, you'd need a list of candidates who are running, parties running for city council, not to mention a gigantic notes section. I think its beyond impossible to standardize, and somewhat pointless if standardized given the size and detail of a standardized table. Totalstgamer (talk) 11:12, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

References

Background

The 2nd paragraph of the Background section starts "The elections were preceded by a period of political deadlock which began in 2019 and resulted in five legislative elections over the course of three years.". The deadlock was at the national level and that doesn't appear to be relevant to the municipal elections. Much of the rest of the paragraph isn't really relevant either (especially the mention of the Green Party). Mcljlm (talk) 02:42, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

It's relevant since there is a partial but sometimes very clear connection between local voting patterns and national ones. Some lists are affiliated with national parties and some aren't, really depends what city or town you look at. DGtal (talk) 23:15, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Chefallen, Bearcat, DGtal, Totalstgamer, מקף, David O. Johnson, TimeEngineer, MottyGlicksman, Mopcop83, SilverLocust

Apart from the need to edit the tense in "Municipal lists are to be submitted between 27 and 28 September 2023." (are > were) does the sentence need expanding as well? Mcljlm (talk) 22:04, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Not really, it's fine. DGtal (talk) 23:15, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

I think its fine too Totalstgamer (talk) 20:21, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Good call; I made a few other improvements to language and grammar. --Chefallen (talk) 16:39, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 23 October 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved boldly. Seems to be non-controversial. Another user moved the page. (closed by non-admin page mover) SilverLocust 💬 08:14, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

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2023 Israeli municipal elections → 2024 Israeli municipal elections –
Hi, see sources in Special:Diff/1181580313.
Thanks, · ^מקף Hyphen _෴ · 23:01, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Reorganization

I admit in hindsight this page is not well organized. At the time the goal was just to mirror the hebrew page and lengthen it with better citations and more info, but once the results start coming in i think it'll be best to overhaul the page (have the five to seven biggest cities get their own somewhat detailed sections and give the rest some improved version of the 2018 results mega-table). Would love to hear more opinions on this. Totalstgamer (talk) 19:36, 27 February 2024 (UTC)