Talk:204th Vukovar Brigade/Archives/2011/December
Latest comment: 13 years ago by Joy in topic Title
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Title
The "Vukovar" in the title was an informal nickname for the unit. The article should probably be moved to the unit's official name, which is 204th Brigade. Timbouctou 13:26, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
- No, see the reference that I left right next to the exact string used, hoping it would be indicative enough :) that Vjesnik article specifically spells out the name this way. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 23:05, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
- That's true. However the article mentions the brigade several times including the actual title of the article (Riješen status 204. brigade) but only refers to it as vukovarska once, probably to explain the unit's origin to readers unfamiliar with its official designation. To be fair, this is obviously a unique case as the Vjesnik article clearly shows that the unit's name was officially changed to "204th Vukovar Brigade" by minister Berislav Rončević in November 2005 (e.g. 13 years after the brigade was disbanded) as a kind of belated recognition to their contribution in the Battle of Vukovar, which means that it was simply known as "204th Brigade" throughout its actual existence between September 1991 and June 1992. In addition, we should keep in mind that there will be future articles about HV brigades which will exclusively use the "XYZth Brigade" format, just like the current convention is at hr.wiki.
- Also, there seems to be another issue with the unit's name. The hr.wiki article mentions that the brigade was also known as 124th Brigade, but uses a broken link to reference the claim. I Googled it and found this thread at Forum.hr in which user Decimus sheds some light on the mix up between 124th and 204th names. Of course, we cannot use forum posts as sources on Wikipedia but perhaps some official sources could be found to back up that story. It might be worth a mention in our article. Timbouctou 00:13, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
- I can't open that link, it renders a blank page, but google cache has it. Like they say, Dedaković could remember precisely what happened. Or Gorinšek. Maybe one day some Croatian journalist will read this and go about finding it out for a story... :) --Joy [shallot] (talk) 14:56, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
- Tomobe03 pointed me to an article that explains the 124th, so I included it. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 23:16, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- I can't open that link, it renders a blank page, but google cache has it. Like they say, Dedaković could remember precisely what happened. Or Gorinšek. Maybe one day some Croatian journalist will read this and go about finding it out for a story... :) --Joy [shallot] (talk) 14:56, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously, a more up-to-date reference attesting to the contrary would resolve the matter. The list on registarbranitelja.com uses the shorter name, but that source can't be considered authoritative because the current government has consistently dissed it as unauthoritative. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 23:07, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
- MORH itself claimed in April 2010 that the register had been leaked in 2007, primarily because it does not contain full data on MUP units, which had been archived by the Interior Ministry and which were later added to the Defense Ministry's registry between 2007 and 2010. This does not mean that what the registry says is untrue, but merely incomplete. Since Rončević officially changed the brigade's name to "204. vukovarska" in 2005, this means that the name change was not entered in the official registry by 2007 (when the leaked version was presumably stolen). I suppose we can assume that if MORH couldn't find the time to update their own records for at least two years that the name change is largely insignificant. Timbouctou 00:26, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
- It wouldn't be the first time they were derelict about this, with this history of SNAFUs, basically anything they produced is suspect... :/ --Joy [shallot] (talk) 14:56, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
- MORH itself claimed in April 2010 that the register had been leaked in 2007, primarily because it does not contain full data on MUP units, which had been archived by the Interior Ministry and which were later added to the Defense Ministry's registry between 2007 and 2010. This does not mean that what the registry says is untrue, but merely incomplete. Since Rončević officially changed the brigade's name to "204. vukovarska" in 2005, this means that the name change was not entered in the official registry by 2007 (when the leaked version was presumably stolen). I suppose we can assume that if MORH couldn't find the time to update their own records for at least two years that the name change is largely insignificant. Timbouctou 00:26, 6 January 2011 (UTC)