Talk:21-gun salute

Contradiction?

This article seems to contradict itself - it implies the Queen's official birthday may co-incide with the Duke of Edinburgh's birthday, then defines the first as (1st sat after Jun 11) and the other as June 10th... 131.111.135.27 11:39, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

19-gun salute?

The page 19-gun salute redirects here but there is no mention of the signifigance (or insignificance for that matter) of this smaller number of guns. I'm curious and my question is left unanswered. Does somebody know? If so, it would be good to mention it in the text of the article -- even briefly. --mako ^{(talk•contribs)} 16:38, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

A 19-gun salute (in the U.S. anyway) is reserved for a vice-head of state, and if I remember correctly, Chiefs of Staffs, Presidential Cabinet members, and 5-Star Generals. (years ago, this would be no-brainer, but, it's been a while though...) Ryecatcher773 05:48, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

In New Zealand, 21 is used for the Royal family while 19 is generally used for visiting foreign heads of state Goldfinger820 06:37, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

1. In the United Kingdom, 19-guns are for field marshals and equivalent (admirals of the fleet and air marshals); ambassadors, and heads of government, ie prime ministers. (Heads of state - presidents and monarchs - get 21-guns.)
2. Thus Tony Blair as the head of government but not head of state got a 19-gun salute when visiting South Africa The Guardian 1 July 2007
3. The remains of The Unknown Warrior were greeted on arrival at Dover from France on 9 November 1921 in the destroyer HMS Verdun by a 19-gun salute from the garrison battery of Dover Castle (p 435). A second 19-gun salute was given at 09:40 by the King's Troop, Royal Horse Artillery, in Hyde Park on 11 November 1921 as the signal for the start of the funeral procession to Westminster Abbey (p 447). The page numbers refer to: Hanson, Neil; The Unknown Soldier, 2007: Corgi Books, UK.
4. Churchill was also given one during his state funeral on 30 April 1965 BBC On This Day (Thirty Years Ago)

ROGER ^TALK 07:36, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Awesome. Thanks both of you for this information. I've added a summary of the information here to the text of the article. —mako๛ 13:01, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

The table in the US section seems incorrect. It states that Heads of Government would get 21 gun salutes but Cameron (British Prime Minister and hence Head of Government but not Head of State) got 19 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/9143412/David-Cameron-given-19-gun-salute-as-he-holds-talks-with-Barack-Obama.html I doubt the State Department would get this wrong! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.64.113.117 (talk) 17:37, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

The head of State in the British government is not the PM, but rather the Sovereign. So the Queen Elizabeth gets the 21, David Cameron gets the 19.Ryecatcher773 (talk) 19:04, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

{{Globalize/en}}

I'm wondering about {{Globalize/en}} on this article. To what extent are 21 gun salute common military practice around the world? Is this article US/England centric because they are more widespread in those countries? —mako (talk•contribs) 19:23, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Unless I get an answer to this, I'm going to remove the template from the article page. —mako (talk•contribs) 15:09, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks whoever followed up on this. mako (talk•contribs) 17:51, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I can't comment on other countries, but Israel dors not use the gun salute. See reason and source under "other". I believe that using the Globalize template is neccesary here. DGtal (talk) 21:46, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

6 Oct 08

Hi, I tried to fix the issue stated at the top of the article about English-speaking POV by trying to separate general info relevant to everyone from country-specific info ("By country"), as well as trying to iron out inconsistencies with salute. The lead I tried to make as general as possible, though I know it looks a bit watered down.

I think some kind of "sync" with salute and salute state needs to happen, though I'd have no idea how to go about it.

Thanks,

118.90.103.108 (talk) 11:01, 6 October 2008 (UTC) (I am the same as 118.90.18.154, though it seems to have changed between now and then.)

US Veterans

Veterans in the US routinely get 21 gun salutes (7x3 rifle volleys). I'm surprised there's no mention here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.17.191.6 (talk) 03:38, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

A common misconception: those aren't 'gun salutes' -- gun salutes are fired by cannons, not rifles. What you are referring to are provided by a 'firing party' not a battery. Ryecatcher773 (talk) 04:09, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Move request

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:22, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

21-gun salute → Gun salute – Relisted. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:39, 17 December 2011 (UTC) This article covers gun salutes in general, which often involve numbers of guns other than 21, and I think the title should reflect this. (There should of course be a redirect from "21-gun salute", which is probably the most common usage.) Alkari (?) 02:22, 10 December 2011 UTC

• Weak Oppose But doesn't nearly every section cover the number '21' in some fashion, whether gun, cannon, day of the week, or what have you... the number 21 is pretty pervasive here. -Kai445 (talk) 06:20, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
• Weak Oppose -- As surrently drafted, most of the article is about 21 gun salutes. I would welcome the UK section being expanded to talk more about the history of this. As I understand it, the practice upon naval ships meeting was to fire a salute away from the other vessel (showing peaceful intent). The number of rounds was according to the status of the officer in command and possibly the location. In its home waters, a ship would be given perhaps two more rounds than the visitor. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:01, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

• Agree - 21-gun salutes are a specific salute and in the overall bigger picture of military honors amount to a small percentage by comparison (they're reserved only for heads of state). The article's title, insofar as it relates to the article's content is inaccurate. Ryecatcher773 (talk) 18:19, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose - a 21 gun salute is a specific salute and most salutes within the article follow that number. If the addition of other salutes has watered the meaning down then those might have a place within a different article named Gun salute and may need to be factored out of this article. There is no need to dilute and obscure the subject of this article.
  ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► 20:54, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

There isn't any 'dilution' or 'obscuration' of the 21-gun salute by making it part of a larger article. Every armed forces full honors ceremony ('full honors' meaning it includes a gun salute) is exactly that - an honor. I can honestly say that after serving 3 years in the US Army's Presidential Salute Gun Battery (3rd US INF, TOG) that there are very few 21-gun salutes that are fired in a given year, but the majority of the work that an entire platoon at Fort Meyer is dedicated to doing is in no way lessened by the number of 11, 13, 15, 17 and 19 gun salutes that get fired annually in the US alone. The number of rounds fired has nothing to do with a lesser honor, only the rank of the officer (or, in the case of 21 head of state).Ryecatcher773 (talk) 05:26, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

On March 14, 2012, British Prime Minister David Cameron received a 19-gun salute at a White House ceremony

On March 14, 2012, British Prime Minister David Cameron received a 19-gun salute at a White House ceremony. - Brad Watson, Miami71.196.11.183 (talk) 13:49, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

References

Specious history?

I am skeptical of the introductory information without a cite: "The custom stems from naval tradition, where a warship would fire its cannons harmlessly out to sea, until all ammunition was spent, to show that it was disarmed, signifying the lack of hostile intent." I do not have any particular knowledge of this history, but it seems ludicrous that a ship would waste all its ammunition at great expense, leaving itself completely defenseless, merely as a gesture to show no hostile intent. Further, what is to stop a ship from appearing to do so but holding ammunition in reserve to launch a surprise attack? The whole idea doesn't seem to pass the sanity check. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 6StringJazzer (talk • contribs) 16:32, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

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I READ & HEARD - in THE USA, 21 HAS A UNIQUE SYMBOLISM...

In The USA - I was told!.... and once I actually HEARD IT DONE... - the 21 gun salute is "shot" in intervals that "spell" 1 - 7 - 7 - 6 Total is 21 of course..

Can anybody confirm?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Al.Qudsi (talk • contribs) 05:44, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Charles

How many were done for him??? 41.58.230.38 (talk) 23:36, 12 September 2022 (UTC)