Talk:23 Beekman Place/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Vaticidalprophet (talk · contribs) 10:37, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): See below. b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): No issues. It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): No issues. b (citations to reliable sources): No issues. c (OR): No issues. d (copyvio and plagiarism): No issues. It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): No issues. b (focused): No issues. It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: No issues. It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: No issues. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): All images are freely licensed. Most are own-work by primary contributor. One is own-work by another contributor; the editor in question had copyvio issues, which is worth noting, but the context of her issues leaves me confident they have no bearing on this image. One is PD by merit of inappropriate copyright notice, which appears accurate studying the original version. b (appropriate use with suitable captions): No issues.
Overall: Pass/Fail:
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I am but a servant of the 23 enigma. Disclaimer that I am no subject-matter expert, and this will be at least as much a test of how the article reads to someone without a background in NYC architecture as anything else. Vaticidalprophet 10:37, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

This has good structural integrity (heh), so I mostly have prose notes.

Lead:

1. Penthouse should be wikilinked in the lead. (It's already wikilinked in the body.)

   Added.

2. "Cantilever" is kind of jargon-y. I'm not sure I'd suggest linking it right there to avoid WP:SEAOFBLUE -- there may be a way to rewrite the sentence such that both 'penthouse' and 'cantilever' can be linked?

   I've reworded it to move the mention of "cantilever" further on in the same sentence. Epicgenius (talk) 16:17, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

3. The rear walls contain full-width windows with East River views, while the interiors contain high ceilings, and open floor plans -- no need for the third comma.

   Removed.

4. The penthouse originally received negative feedback from residents of neighboring buildings, who did not want attention drawn to the area -- this feels like a topic that needs elaboration. Considering the lead is the most visible and accessible part of the article, it should be reasonably self-contained about a matter like this, at least with a short addition to the sentence explaining why they didn't want attention.

   I added a little context. The immediate surrounding area is a secluded high plateau with low-rise stone or brick mansions and simple brick apartments, so a tall mansion with a steel penthouse sticks out. This isn't in the sources, but from my own observations. Epicgenius (talk) 16:17, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Site:

1. It is along the eastern sidewalk of Beekman Place between 50th Street to the south and 51st Street to the north -- this sentence is a bit hurried, and would read better with a comma between "Place" and "between".

   Added.

2. The land at 23 Beekman Place once was part of the country estate of James Beekman -- scans better as "was once".

   Done.

Design:

1. The penthouse consists of the sixth through ninth stories.[3][6][1] -- ref order.

   Done.

2. Aside from 23 Beekman Place, these projects included 101 East 63rd Street and 246 East 58th Street in Manhattan, as well as Tracey Towers, Davidson Houses, Middletown Plaza in the Bronx.[8] -- missing an "and"?

   Done.

3. His later work was based in Southeast Asia, with the renovation at 23 Beekman Place reflecting aspects of that work -- this is an odd sentence, and I'm not entirely sure what idea it's trying to express.

   He worked in SE Asia in the later part of his life and imported some of the design aspects from these Southeast Asian projects to 23 Beekman Place. Hopefully this is clearer now that I've reworded it. Epicgenius (talk) 16:17, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

4. Rudolph experimented with industrial materials; concrete was one that proved most essential, even where some of his greatest work did not use it as a primary material -- another confusing sentence.

   I've reworded this too. Epicgenius (talk) 16:17, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

5. Unconvinced 'steel' needs to be wikilinked, although I'm lenient about linking common words.

   Removed.

6. Additionally, the eastern part of the south facade -- 'additionally' is superfluous.

   Removed.

7. The penthouse consists of the sixth through ninth stories and consists of metal panels and steel I-beams -- repetitive.

   I streamlined the phrasing. Epicgenius (talk) 16:17, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

8. Rudolph's penthouse residence was characterized largely by obscured boundaries, which was in part due to its shiny materials and multilevel living spaces.[25][17] -- ref order.

   Done.

History:

1. In 1929, architect Franklin Abbott designed the first alteration for the building -- Abbott is redlinked, do you think he's notable?

   He could be. He designed several works largely in Pittsburgh. PA. Epicgenius (talk) 16:17, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

2. The couple had three residences by the 1940s: their Beekman Place townhouse; a weekend house at Sneden's Landing on the Hudson River in Palisades, New York; and a vacation home at Martha's Vineyard -- these should have commas, not semicolons.

   This might be an example of WP:ENGVAR. At least in American English, if a serial list has items with commas in them (e.g. Washington, DC; New York, NY; and Boston, MA), then these list items will have semicolons to distinguish them. Epicgenius (talk) 16:17, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

3. Their Beekman Place apartment was used for at least a few organized events including, in 1941, a visit by a gardening club -- I don't think the dates here need to be set off. "...including a visit by a gardening club in 1941"?

   Yep, I have done something similar.. Epicgenius (talk) 16:17, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

4. Paul Rudolph leased the fourth-floor apartment from Marsciano in 1961.[12] Rudolph began making modifications to the apartment soon afterward -- this feels choppy split in two. "...in 1961 and began making modifications to the apartment soon afterwards" sounds more natural. (Comma after "1961" optional.)

   I've added a comma and combined the sentences. Epicgenius (talk) 16:17, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

5. At the time, he was still living in New Haven, Connecticut, because he was still serving as department head at the Yale School of Architecture -- awkward sentence. "At the time, he was living in New Haven, Connecticut, serving as department head at the Yale School of Architecture"?

   That sounds good. I've done that. Epicgenius (talk) 16:17, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

6. Rudolph had proposed a rooftop swimming pool, as well as some rooms with windows but the DOB and BSA rejected those ideas -- "some rooms with windows" is broad/ambiguous, and this wants a comma between 'windows' and 'but'.

   Sorry, I meant the opposite of "rooms with windows". Rudolph wanted to add windowless rooms, in essence making these into oversized closets. City building codes would not allow that. Epicgenius (talk) 16:17, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

7. the penthouse was constructed starting in late 1977 and continuing through the following year -- run-on.

   Fixed.

8. but in the meantime the vacant space used for fashion shoots -- grammatically unsound, and is there more to say about the shoots?

   I fixed the grammar, as it was indeed a run-on. However, there is sadly little about the shoots themselves. Epicgenius (talk) 16:17, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

9. a buyer could theoretically any alterations to the interior -- missing word, not sure what it is ("perform"?).

   Yep, I added that word. As you can probably see, I neglect to add words sometimes because my mind jumps from one thing to another. Epicgenius (talk) 16:17, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

10. Rudolph's estate thus wished for the buyer to preserve the interior -- this is clear from the preceding sentences.

    Removed.

11. As a result, the family brought various pieces of furniture from different architects and artists, and they installed their art collection throughout the house -- the third clause here seems to drag. I don't think both of "and they" are necessary.

    I split these into 2 sentences. Epicgenius (talk) 16:17, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

12. The fourth story was converted into a playroom; one duplex unit was used for the Boyds' library; another duplex became a seating gallery; and one unit with high ceilings became a recording studio -- semicolons where they shouldn't be. The first is correct, but the rest should be commas if they should be anything at all. I've played with this sentence a few times, because there are a few ways to rewrite it. ("The fourth story was converted into a playroom; one duplex unit was used for the Boyds' library, while another became a seating gallery. A unit with high ceilings became a recording studio.") I also might recommend defining 'seating gallery'.

    I split these into 2 sentences as well. This is another possible use of semicolons, relating to the "serial list" usage I pointed out above, but I decided to split the sentences because of their complexity. Epicgenius (talk) 16:17, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

13. The dispute with Rupp meanwhile became acrimonious: Michael Boyd recalled that his wife sprayed water onto Rupp's workers, prompting Rupp to call the police and accuse them of throwing bricks -- colon should be a semicolon.

    Done.

14. The LPC voted to designate the building at 23 Beekman Place as a city landmark on November 16, 2010.[77][74] -- ref order.

    Done.

15. The house was placed for sale at $27.5 million in 2012.[78][73] -- ref order.

    Done.

That should be all of it. Overall, strong work. Manages to be a fairly entertaining read for a subject that might otherwise be dry to non-specialists; I liked the description of Rudolph's "mischevious glee" at his bizarre creation. Vaticidalprophet 10:57, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

@Vaticidalprophet: Thanks for the in-depth prose comments. I have addressed all of these. I'm glad you enjoyed that description as well; the house was something Rudolph was truly proud of toward the end of his life. Epicgenius (talk) 16:17, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Good to see.  Passed Vaticidalprophet 16:47, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.