Talk:3,000 mile myth

NPOV

Page updated to challenge the neutrality of the piece. See my relevant comments below in "Additional References and Sources" and "Words copied verbatim." To summarize, it reads like a heavily-slanted piece of eco-propaganda...and prominently cites a "carecycle.ca.gov" site, the primary intent of which is to cajole CA citizenry into extending their oil change intervals--a cheerleader being hardly the most POV-neutral source.

Additionally, there are issues with scope and breadth: there is presently no article on "Oil Change Intervals" (generally); why write a piece that specifically denigrates one extremety of the OCI spectrum? It would be better, perhaps, as a sub-section of a broader article...assuming neutrality can be acheived.

Park Flier (talk) 20:26, 11 May 2015 (UTC) I agree with this. Wikipedia is not a place to entertain myths. It is silly to describe a myth that is conditionally false (i.e. depends on the type of car and oil). The article goes on to qualify its 7500 mile claim by warning owners to consult their owner's manuals. With no universal claims and no evidence, the article does nothing to further knowledge of the subject of oil life. The article should be deleted and topics moved to Motor_oil#Maintenance.

Additional References and Sources

I added in another reference, trouble is that gov website tend to bury their research deep. I will keep looking and add more as time allows. -- The Robot Champion  talk to me  04:10, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

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This article should make it clear that this isn't always a myth. Turbo charged cars tend to break the oil down quicker due to increased heat for example. WBG4 (talk) 20:16, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

How come only Americans change their oil that often? 95.209.80.157 (talk) 22:47, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

My Swedish car has a manufacturer-recommended oil change frequency of 3000 miles. It's in the manual. Therefore it is not just "Americans" who change their oil that often. Drakkenfyre (talk) 20:29, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

How old is that car though? Is it turbocharged? All these things factor into what is required for service intervals. Cars used to commonly require more frequent service intervals, and as time has gone on, they have dropped. The 3,000 mile mentality is most likely just old outdated wisdom. 216.191.231.218 (talk) 15:20, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

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Agree, article refers to oil degradation ONLY. There are other less favorable operating conditions that could make the car manufacturers statements appear optimistic, even when some of them clearly divide oilchange schedules into two different service conditions ("normal" and "severe" or demanding, or dusty places). The fact is that even modern engines with their almost isolated crankcase ventilation systems are prone to dirt ingress in dusty environments, where a more frequent oil change interval can be advantageous. Vehicle use pattern can be VERY important: So called "fleet" use vehicles, like Taxis and other similar fleets whose engines are started much less times in a given time period (compared to their total running hours), can accumulate huge mileage values before an engine rebuilding becomes necessary (Taxi cars with over 500,000 miles without significant repairs or overhauls are frequently reported and verified). A family car used mostly to perform very short trips and brief periods of use will frequently need an engine overhaul at a fraction of the Taxi engine mileage. Thus, the article needs to address these aspects, or risk creating the OPPOSITE MYTH, which is also undesirable. amclaussen, Chemical Engineer working in a petrochemical knowledge area.

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(1) "In the 1980s, to improve fuel economy and engine performance 10W-30 oil was introduced[.]"

(2) "10W-30 oil was in general use in the 1960's if not the late 1950's."

Okay, which is it? 76.90.231.95 (talk) 06:03, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

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The objectivity of this page is lacking (heck it editorializes in the title, for Chrissakes!) and reads as a poorly-researched piece of eco-propaganda. It describes the (putative) myth, then explains--original research--a theory (falsely expressed as fact) as to origins.

A contrary opinion about the value of more-frequent oil changes (putting to rest the "strawman argument" of selecting the most extreme OCI, thanks,) would be:

1. Changing one's oil has negative ecological repurcussion if and only if proper disposal procedures aren't followed. 2. Given 1, various governments have attempted to cajole motorists and automakers into fewer oil changes. Methods include "sin taxes" on motor oil and pressure on manufacturers to extend OCIs. 3. This has resulted in an overall lengthening of OCIs by manufacturers. The manufacturers whose OCIs are most lengthened are those based in areas most in the thrall of green governance. 4. Various problems have been attributed to lengthened OCIs. Toyota sludging, MB got sued for sludging (and scaled back OCI), GM did a software update to its oil life monitor after chain-driven balance shafts were failing within warranty periods. (Just the ones off the top of my head...there are more.) 5. Mention needs to be given of conflicting longevity goals: manufacturers need to keep the original owner happy; governments often desire old cars to be less durable (Cash for Clunkers and similar European efforts); owners (both first and subsequent) often desire longest possible life/lowest possible total ownership costs.

This is a minimum dissenting OPINION to add to this OPINION piece to create some semblance of objectivity; however, I really think what it needs is a heavy dose of Napalm and a bulldozer... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bcubed72 (talk • contribs) 04:36, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Words copied verbatim?

I noticed that some of the text of the article appears to be exactly from the quote on this page. http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/UsedOil/OilChange/Quotes.htm "Some models now come with a monitoring system that alerts the driver when the oil needs changing. Depending on driving conditions, these can extend change intervals to 10,000 or 15,000 miles." from Consumer Reports. Shouldn't it be in our own words? Sorry, not much of a Wikipedian, but my instinct is that direct quotes should be marked. --67.183.147.182 (talk) 21:22, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

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In addition, that is from a CA government website cajoling its citizenry into behavior modification.

Backstory: it is illegal in CA (and only CA) to use waste motor oil as fuel (generally as a home heating oil substitute). That questionable decision has led WMO to be a liabilty and an expense to dispose of, instead of the valued commodity it is in 49/50 of the US (and eleswhere). To attempt to rectify this situation CA spends taxpayer money at behavior modification so that this legislated problem is mitigated.

I would therefore move that CA.gov website not be utilized as a non-biased reference: once you act as a cheerleader (on any side), you forfeit any and all claims to objectivity! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bcubed72 (talk • contribs) 04:54, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Normal service vs. Severe service intervals

Oil change intervals that the manufacturers recommend are typically for "normal service" only. Living in the North East of the U.S., I can say that the driving conditions here are not normal. For the most part severe service intervals should be followed. There are a lot of factors that dictate when the oil should be changed. Let's make sure we know them all before we push the 3,000 mile myth on the public.

removed material

As of 2015, many common vehicle engines come with recommended oil change intervals from 5,000 to 10,000 miles or more. Two major reasons for these longer oil change intervals are 1) newer engines are made with tighter tolerances and 2) improvements in motor oil, combining to keep engines and oil cleaner.

Many cars now have oil-life monitors that inform the driver when to change the oil. These monitors are a function of the car's computer. The computer monitors the miles driven, driving habits of the driver, and other variables since the last oil change and calculates and informs the driver when an oil change should be performed.

The 3000 miles oil-change rule generally only applies to vehicles manufactured prior to the 1970s. However, drivers should consult their owner's manual for specific oil change intervals, especially if the vehicle is operated under severe conditions (usually listed in the manual.)

At the beginning of the twentieth century, many car manufacturers recommended an oil use duration of 500 miles (800 km) to 2,000 miles (3,200 km). With the advent of oil filters in the 1920s and their popularization later on, car manufacturers extended the oil use duration up to 3,000 miles. Throughout the years, many oil change shops recommended an oil change every 3,000 miles. However, during the later part of the twentieth century, engine technology and oil technology have advanced requiring less frequent oil changes under normal driving conditions.

174.23.185.196 (talk) 04:15, 3 December 2016 (UTC)