Talk:3rd Canadian Division

5th CMR

Hi all. Just put a link between the 5th Cdn Mounted Rifles and the Sherbrooke Hussars. It remains very unclear to me whether the Hussars are the legitimate perpetuators, though. Esseh 00:33, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Just found this link, claiming that the 5th CMR were formed from the 7th and XIth Hussars, who are by the Sherbrooke Hussars. Esseh 00:52, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Merger proposal

I propose that Land Force Western Area be merged into 3rd Canadian Division, per this press release issued 8 July 2013[1]. Plasma east (talk) 11:50, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Support As per discussion which took place at 1 Can Div and my comments at 2 Can Div. trackratte (talk) 23:08, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Isn't it a bit "jumping the ball" here? The rename isn't even effective yet, it has only been announced... Amqui (talk) 20:19, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Support The renaming is to be a gradual process, without a definate changeover date, so the article may as well be renamed sooner rather than later. GrahamNoyes (talk) 02:30, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Support Bit of an update. LFWA is now referred to as 3rd Can Div by staff and on their website. Superfly94 (talk) 14:38, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Support and - as enough time has passed since the merger was proposed - whenever one feels like merging the two articles, please do so! noclador (talk) 13:01, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Oppose - LFWA had a historic identity and badge of its own. Why not keep its own article?131.137.245.209 (talk) 00:22, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Pantone for current 3rd Division insignia

From the Divisional public affairs people, an article notes that:

Can We Still Call It ‘French Grey’?

Along with the restoration of the Divisional structure to the Canadian Army, 3rd Canadian Division soldiers will soon be issued the historical grey division patch. Historically, units reverently referred to the patch colour as French Grey.

“French Grey was actually a subjective definition during the First World War and Second World War. It was what the cloth manufacturer named it,” said Dr. Steve Harris, Acting Chief Director and Chief Historian of National Defence’s Directorate of History and Heritage.

Depending on the manufacturer, there were numerous shades of the so-called French Grey. “Allowing for wear and tear and aging and weather, I'm not sure they were ever the same colour to begin with,” continues Dr. Harris. “Different manufacturers used slightly different dye or it was the same dye on a different fabric.”

This inconsistency carries on today and is easily observed in the various shades of grey on Mess Kit.

With the restoration of the Divisional structure, the colour is now standardized using the Pantone Color Matching System, the current international standard in colour reproduction.

“When you take the Second World War ‘French Grey’ patch and put it against the current Pantone colour system, it comes out as ‘Blue Fog’” (Pantone 15-4008), said Dr. Harris.

It’s important to note 3rd Canadian Division is the only division that had historically used the name for the grey colour in the patch. According to Dr. Harris, the colours of first, second, fourth, and fifth divisions were never known by a nickname – they were simply “just red, blue, green, and maroon”.

Bottom line: 3rd Canadian Division’s Patch is Pantone 15-4008 (“Blue Fog”),' but in keeping with tradition, it is appropriate to refer to the Patch Colour as French Grey.'

This Pantone obviously applies to the current incarnation as the previous incarnations had a variety of colours in the patches as discussed in the article.Michael Dorosh^Talk 23:19, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Water Rats

"the 3rd Canadian Infantry Division had the nickname of "Water Rats" bestowed upon them by Field Marshal Sir Bernard Montgomery"

Reference to military nicknames is a tricky area, especially when "bestowed"- in this case by the unlikely source of Field Marshall Montgomery. Examination of the cited source- <http://canadiansoldiers.com/organization/fieldforces/casf/3rdivision.htm> - reveals a contradictory narrative. Initially it asserts flatly that Canadian 3rd Div were "nicknamed the 'Water Rats' by [FM] Montgomery." A few lines later it simply states that "by the end of the war the division had become known as the "Water Rats in reference to the amount of fighting it had done ...through flooded terrain." An accompanying press cutting indicates that the nickname was in fact "claimed" by the men of the division themselves, it seems in sardonic acknowledgement of fighting conditions in the Rhine Delta ( and perhaps with a nod to the warmer and drier'Desert Rats').`

The cited source for this is Terry Copp's "Cinderella Army: The Canadians in Northwest Europe 1944-1945" A search of Mr Copps website, <terrycopp.com> leads to several references to Third Division and its nickname. One in particular makes clear reference to "members of the 3rd Canadian Div., calling themselves the Water Rats." <https://terrycopp.com/2017/06/01/the-liberation-tour/>. Another article indicates that this nickname related specifically to the waterlogged conditions in the Rhineland in 1945: "Third Div., known since the Rhineland as the Water Rats" <https://terrycopp.com/2017/05/18/the-liberation-of-western-holland/>. On the basis of this examination of the cited sources, I recommend that reference to the nickname 'Water Rats' be amended, removing reference to FM Montgomery and more accurately reflecting Profesor Copps own statements. JF42 (talk) 20:10, 16 June 2022 (UTC)