Talk:55th (West Lancashire) Infantry Division/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Peacemaker67 (talk · contribs) 08:06, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

This article is in good shape. I have some comments:

• in the lead, it says "was re-assigned the units that had been transferred" but the preceding para implies that the members of the division volunteered for overseas service and joined other units, where it appears they actually were transferred by unit and sub-unit?

• Rephrased - most men volunteered by unit, so for instance the Liverpool Scottish were sent to France in November 1914 and joined the 3rd Division

• comma after Richard Haldane

• Done

• "The division, as a unitformation"

• Done

• suggest "but having also demonstrated its training..."

• Think I've rephrased in a better way as flaws aren't inherent

• "Ggeneral officers commanding"

• Done

• "its last remaining infantry unitformation,"

• Done

• suggest "The infantry of the division comprised the 164th Brigade, consisting of the 1/4th Battalion..." "the 165th Brigade, consisting of the 1/5th Battalion..." "and 166th Brigade, consisting of the 1/10th (Scottish) Battalion... to avoid all the double parens and break it up a bit

• Done

• "The Liverpool Irish, attacking during the night"→"The battalion, attacking during the night" to avoid repetition

• Done

• was Baxter the only casualty?

• Incredibly, yes

• when the VC is first mentioned, say that it is the highest award for gallantry available to a member of the British armed forces

• Done

• "dressed the wounds of the two woundedmen"

• Done

• "Two of the attacking partiesbattalions"

• Done

• "cleareding two positions"

• Done

• "During this period in the trenches the division suffered 1,100 casualties" that is just gobsmacking, given no major attacks were undertaken. Any explanation for this?

• Trench raids are costly and routine trench warfare might take a large toll in wounded/sick men. The figure is given in the division history, although the previous total was incorrect so I have changed it.

From the divisional history: "The period from February 16th to the end of July ... was a period of trench warfare, with raids of recurring frequency and recurring strength." (Coop, p. 25) and "...it was by no means a peaceful period is shown by the casualty list: 63 Officers and 1,047 other ranks killed, wounded or missing.' (Coop, p. 29)

I was not able to access Gary Sheffield's work directly, but another paraphrasing him wrote "British and Canadian battalions suffered about 100 casualties per month on average on the Western Front in the First World War." Using just the full months the division was on the line, it would seem they were well under the average. I cant find much more (I had expected too) when it came to the wastage rate. Not exactly a good comparison, but David French noted that during major combat (in this case 3rd Ypres), the wastage rate from 2,354 men per day, and Normandy was 2,354 men per day. Average divisional losses in Normandy were about 5,400 out of the 7,200 men in the frontline units - the higher rate than the First World War.

I am looking to make this article an FAC. For completion, do you believe a note outlining some of the above should be included (and perhaps at this first point about alarming casualties?)EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 15:49, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

I think a short sentence indicating average casualties per month in WWI on the Western Front would do the trick. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:30, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

I have added a small noteEnigmaMcmxc (talk) 00:10, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

• Second lieutenant is a duplicate link

• Done

• in the Battle of the Somme section, could you insert which brigade(s) were involved as they are committed? This avoids having to scroll up and check. This also applies to the Passchendaele section

  I have made a few tweaks in this regardEnigmaMcmxc (talk) 15:13, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

• "which injured him" or wounded him?

• Switched around the clauses in that sentence

• "He saved twenty lives being and"

• Done

Down to Battle of Passchendaele. More to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:24, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

Look forward to further feedback.EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 15:13, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

• Throughout, when mentioning attacks the division was involved in, I suggest indicating which brigades attacked in the first phase and in what formation (ie Xth Brigade on the left, Xth Brigade on the right, and with Xth Brigade in reserve) and when mentioning battalions (While the 164th Brigade's 1/4KORL...) this provides context to any actions by individual battalions that are mentioned.

  I have worked through the article and added the brigade in where it seemed most appropriate. The only one, imo, where I have not is where it mentions an ad hoc grouping of battalions. It is sourced from a book I do not have access to. I have reached out to Keith, who I believe added it to verify the battalion in question. Once I get that info, I will update to reflect what brigade they came from.EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 00:10, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

• "tasked with preventing German forces from moving to reinforce the main British effort" doesn't make sense. Do you mean moving to reinforce those German forces facing the main British effort?

  Quite, I have tweaked this. Hope it suffices?EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 00:07, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

• "from where they could launched rifle grenades"

• Done

• A two minute barrage for the 20 November attack by 1/4LR? And only the divisional artillery? A creeping barrage?

  Coop doesn't specify what guns were involved, just the artillery opened up a bombardment of the German positions. The next para specifies a creeping barrage for the infantry, so it would appear there was a general bombardment and the creeping one. I have amended the text to closer reflect what Coop wrote. If you feel that this is not adequate, I can provide his actual words so we can flesh this out?EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 00:07, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

• "patrols were dispatched without combatincident"?

• Done

• "This coincided with low-flying reconnaissance flights by the Luftstreitkräfte"

• Done

• "judged this to indication"→"judged this as an indication"

• Done

• suggest moving the launching of Operation Michael to the appropriate point in the chronology and keeping the sentence prior to the introduction to Operation Georgette (and the following info) where it is

• Rephrased, does the current version work?

• "Local counter-attacks were resulted"

• Done

• "divisional pioneer and RE companies" British divisions only had pioneer companies rather than battalions?

• Corrected - a missing word here referring to the pioneer battalion, as seen on the adjacent map

• Who is/was Don Farr? "the historian", author etc

• Done

• be consistent with the hyphenation of ranks, you have a couple of instances of Second-Lieutenant, but the rest are Second Lieutenant

• Removed hyphens

• "led a counter-attack onby nine men"

• Done

• suggest "Jeudwine contributed his ideas on defensive tactics"

• Done

• "On 14 September, the 166th Brigade" and also "whereas the 164th Brigade"

• Done

• link Kitchener's Army

• Done

• "and the mayors of Givenchy..."

• Done

• drop the comma from "Liverpool Scottish, (Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders)"

• Done

• find the first mention of GOC and put the initialisation there, and just use GOC here

  AmendedEnigmaMcmxc (talk) 00:07, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

• Fortunatly→Fortunately

• Done

• "Commander-in-Chief, Home Forces, General Walter Kirke" and link General here not later with Ironside

  AmendedEnigmaMcmxc (talk) 00:07, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

• "as thea counterattack force", there were obviously others

• Done

• "improving of defensive positions"

• Done

• expanding defensces

• Done

• the division was relieved

• Done

• 61st Infantry dDivisions

• Done

• "not to move the 18 divisions of the 15th Army to Normandy" from where? The Pas De Calais or elsewhere?

  Pas-de-Calais it is, I have tweaked the article.EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 00:07, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

• is there a publisher for Hall, Brian in the Refs?

  AmendedEnigmaMcmxc (talk) 00:07, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

• Barnesley→Barnsley in the Refs, there a couple of these

  AmendedEnigmaMcmxc (talk) 00:07, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

• the First World War divisional insignia in the infobox needs a source

• Done

I have updated the Commons page to include additional source information and creation date. Does the infobox still need the inline citation?EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 23:04, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

• the rest of the images are appropriately licensed

That's me done, placing on hold for the above to be addressed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:11, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for the review. I have attempted to address the majority of what was left. I will work through the article tomorrow, if Kges1901 does not beat me to it, to address your comment regards brigades (not to mention the insignia).

I left a few comments throughout for you as well.EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 00:07, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

I have endeavored to address the remaining comments raised.EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 00:10, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

All good. This article is well-written, verifiable using reliable sources, covers the subject well, is neutral and stable, contains no plagiarism, and is illustrated by acceptably licensed images with appropriate captions. Passing. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:35, 11 October 2019 (UTC)