Talk:747

Requested move 25 November 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved by unanimous support — JFG ^talk 13:45, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

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• 747 (disambiguation) → 747
• 747 → AD 747

– Year is not the primary topic; similar to Talk:777 (disambiguation)#Requested move 23 November 2019. Boeing 747 is the most likely target. — JFG ^talk 11:42, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

Courtesy ping @Alex 21, Amakuru, Arthur Rubin, Bkonrad, Carn, Certes, Ceyockey, Colin M, CookieMonster755, Dicklyon, GeoffreyT2000, Gonnym, Hansen Sebastian, JFG, JHunterJ, King of Hearts, KingSkyLord, Narky Blert, Netoholic, No Great Shaker, Power~enwiki, Randy Kryn, Red Slash, Rreagan007, Shhhnotsoloud, and Steel1943:. — JFG ^talk 11:51, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

• Support by my usual rationale for 3-digit numbers. (1) The default WP:PTOPIC is the year AD, because of its importance in Western civilisation. (2) If there is another important topic, then the DAB should be at the basename (e.g. 666, 911). No such other topic can become the PTOPIC because of PTOPIC guideline #2: the "long-term significance [and] substantially greater enduring notability and educational value" of the year. Narky Blert (talk) 12:00, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
• Support, some of these are at the point of uncontroversial moves. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:13, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
• Support, at the very least no primary topic. I'd go further and say 747 might be a primary redirect to Boeing 747._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 12:45, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
• Support, makes a lot of sense. KingSkyLord (talk | contribs) 13:13, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
• Support. 747 was not an especially interesting year but gets ten times more pageviews than adjacent years. It seems reasonable to conclude that 90% of readers were looking for something else, probably the plane, and that the year is not a primary topic. If creating Wikipedia today we might well redirect 747 to Boeing 747, but traditional practice and external incoming links suggest that a dab is the best compromise. Certes (talk) 14:27, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

  I would say its higher than 90% given that probably around 95% of readers get to articles via Google or internal links. Crouch, Swale (talk) 06:18, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

• Strong support per nom. No clear primary topic. Move disambiguation page to basename. Paintspot Infez (talk) 20:20, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

Also, pinging a participant of previous similar discussions (that you may have accidentally left out because they're often the nominator): @Crouch, Swale:. Paintspot Infez (talk) 20:51, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Paintspot, looks like I forgot you too! — JFG ^talk 22:50, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

Totally fine! Glad I could help (and thanks for alphabetizing the ping list from the 777 move)! Paintspot Infez (talk) 04:13, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

• Support. Hyperbolick (talk) 22:10, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
• Support no clear primary topic also noting that 747 (album) gets 1,473 views (close to 1,492 for the year especially since it doesn't have the unqualified name). Indeed the plane might qualify as primary based on usage since it gets 70,116 views [[1]] but we don't know how many people type "747" to get there and the years and number are probably primary by PT#2. A Google search for 747 only returns the plane on the 1st page of results, same with a Google Image search and a Books search also appears to return only results for the plane. A site:wikipedia.org 747 returns the Boeing 747 article then Boeing 747-8, then Boeing 747-400 and then 747. As noted however we probably shouldn't treat the plane as primary thought given long-term significance and incoming external links, the DAB makes most sense. Crouch, Swale (talk) 06:18, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 2 December 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 07:14, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

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747 → 747 (disambiguation) – I would argue for Boeing 747 to be elevated to WP:primary topic by sheer magnitude of this airliner's impact on the world. Note that apart from the year and number, most dabbed meanings are derived from the airliner's name. Rationale according to our primary topic criterion:

• Boeing 747 easily outstrips all other meanings under PT criterion #1 of usage (much more likely than any other single topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term).
• I would assert that the airliner also dwarfs the year and number according to PT criterion #2 of "long-term significance" (substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with that term). The AD 747 year is indeed a long-term meaning but it was not a particularly significant year. Similarly, 747 (number) is mathematically not remarkable.

The "747" title should be turned into a WP:Primary redirect to Boeing 747, which would then include a {{redirect}} hatnote pointing to the dab page for other meanings of "747". — JFG ^talk 19:18, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Pinging the 3-digit RM posse @Alex 21, Amakuru, Arthur Rubin, Bkonrad, Carn, Certes, Ceyockey, Colin M, CookieMonster755, Crouch, Swale, Dicklyon, GeoffreyT2000, Gonnym, Hansen Sebastian, Hyperbolick, JFG, JHunterJ, King of Hearts, KingSkyLord, Narky Blert, Netoholic, No Great Shaker, Paintspot, Power~enwiki, Randy Kryn, Red Slash, Rreagan007, Shhhnotsoloud, and Steel1943:. — JFG ^talk 19:22, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

• I would be inclined to wait for now since the DAB was just moved to the base name, maybe the 747 (plane) redirect could be used per WP:DABTEST but I agree the plane is more likely if a PT exists. Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:25, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

  Good idea, I have set up the WP:DABTEST, which can inform this discussion further after a few days. — JFG ^talk 19:35, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

• Don't see how this number can have a primary topic. Anointing one just means bad links meant for other major meaning. Hyperbolick (talk) 20:30, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose, by my argument in the recently-closed discussion that although the AD year can be dislodged as WP:PTOPIC, it cannot be replaced.

Also, oppose for now. There are several open proposals that the basename of a particular 3-digit number should be at the DAB page, and also proposals are being floated for a more general WP:RFC on 3-digit numbers (see e.g. at Talk:123 (disambiguation)#Requested move 2 December 2019. I would welcome such an RFC in the hope of reaching WP:CONSENSUS which would set out guidelines for all 800 of them rather than treating them individually. Narky Blert (talk) 20:54, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

• Support The vast majority of people will associate the airplane with "747". It's the obvious primary topic, and should be a primary redirect._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 21:30, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
• Support per WP:PT and Orange (colour) Red Slash 23:46, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Wait, @Red Slash: "Orange (colour)" proves as a good example of not having a primary topic — just making sure you're aware that the dab page is already at the basename, and the proposal is to make the PLANE the primary topic. Paintspot Infez (talk) 00:46, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

Thank you! I misread this proposal in the midst of all the other ones. Yes, oppose quite fervently. Thank you!! Red Slash 15:09, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose (strongly) - I agree with Hyperbolic: "Don't see how this number can have a primary topic. Anointing one just means bad links meant for other major meaning." Also, I'd probably Wait before doing anything else. Paintspot Infez (talk) 00:31, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose but without prejudice to proposing this move again once we have results from a DABTEST. We don't yet know whether the plane is the desired topic for a majority of readers who type simply "747". Coupled with the recent move, we would be changing the base name's destination from one topic to another, which is a much greater upheaval than changing from PT to dab or vice versa. Existing links on external websites, talk pages, etc. would be left pointing to the wrong article. Certes (talk) 00:49, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
• Leaning oppose for now per Certes, however I welcome seeing later (after months or years) when the DABEST gives more reliable results since it could easily be skewed either way by both the fact the year was moved away from the base name only yesterday and also more likely because of this RM and all the attention from editors these pages are currently getting. Crouch, Swale (talk) 10:02, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
• Support Boeing 747 gets around 64 times as many monthly page views as the other pages on the this page. This page also gets more views than any entry besides Boeing 747.– BrandonXLF (talk) 23:02, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.