Talk:A Very Merry Unauthorized Children's Scientology Pageant/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Wikipedia:Citation templates

• I went through a formatted all of the citations with Wikipedia:Citation templates. I also combined one dup entry citation, must have been a mistake. So now there are (22) citations in the article. Cirt 04:23, 24 October 2007 (UTC).

Short archive

• I made a relatively short archive, at Talk:A Very Merry Unauthorized Children's Scientology Pageant/Archive 1, so we can have a direct link for the past WP:GAC reviews, accessible in the Article History box that we know are stable. Cirt 07:35, 24 October 2007 (UTC).

Plot summary

I tried to make the plot summary section read more like a plot summary. It's almost entirely in the passive voice and doesn't tell us what the characters are doing. This is discussed; that is discussed. It should instead relate what happens in the script, something like this: L. Ron Hubbard arrives at the guild hall and is astonished to see his long lost brother "Lost Brothers". Tom Cruise shows up, facial tics and all, and declares, "I love you, Scientology, even more than Nicole" (Katie in the 2006 version). His emotions flow, but there is no response from church officals "My Heart Is Breaking." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ssilvers (talk • contribs) 03:56, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

• I like your changes, and your suggestions. I'll do my best to work some of it into the article, thank you. Cirt (talk) 04:00, 28 November 2007 (UTC).
  • I incorporated some of your ideas and made some changes to the plot summary section. Now I'll go check to see if more material can be added to the section from existing cites for expansion, if possible. Cirt (talk) 09:30, 28 November 2007 (UTC).
  • Okay, I've expanded the plot a bit more, still checking a few more cites.. Cirt (talk) 09:59, 28 November 2007 (UTC).

Lead/Intro

The WP:LEAD of the article is structured to follow a chronological format. But if you feel it should not, and should instead be organized topically, I'd love to hear your thoughts as to why. Cirt (talk) 01:56, 14 December 2007 (UTC).

IMHO, the intro's too long, largely because it contains too many details repeated later. Moreover, it will be more useful to readers if it outlines themes, as by combining the sentences about Church legal threats, instead of presenting a chronology in miniature. PRRfan (talk) 02:04, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Noted. I'd go along with the thematic restructuring, but I think the intro is an appropriate size given the size of the article. Cirt (talk) 02:06, 14 December 2007 (UTC).

 Done - Gave Lead/Intro thematic restructuring. Cirt (talk) 02:08, 14 December 2007 (UTC).

Nice work. I'd also suggest tightening the intro's final graf:

The 2003, 2004, and 2006 productions of A Very Merry Unauthorized Children's Scientology Pageant were well received. The 2003 New York production received an Obie Award, and director Alex Timbers received a Garland Award for the 2004 Los Angeles production. The play received positive reviews from The New York Times, The Village Voice, The Los Angeles Times, The Guardian, Variety, The Boston Globe. A 2004 cast recording released by Sh-K-Boom Records received four out of five stars from All Music Guide and plaudits from The Los Angeles Daily News.

Incidentally, the fact that "Unauthorized" was inserted upon legal counsel is an important detail that can be left until later.PRRfan (talk) 02:21, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

• I implemented a bunch of these suggested changes, but the highlights from the reviewers are important. And no, I thin that the fact that "Unauthorized" was inserted upon legal counsel is an important detail that should definitely be mentioned in the Lead/Intro. It's the very reason behind the title of the play itself, and frames much of the issues surrounding harassment and frivolous legal threats that are elaborated upon later in the article. Cirt (talk) 02:28, 14 December 2007 (UTC).

I think the intro need contain little more than the tenor of the reviews, and that the essential point of the harrassment sentence is that they producers responded to the threats, lawyers or no. But onward. I'd suggest this: "The one-act musical lasts about an hour. Jarrow based the story of the musical on L. Ron Hubbard's writings and Church of Scientology literature" become this: "Jarrow based the story of the one-act, one-hour musical on Hubbard's writings and Church of Scientology literature." PRRfan (talk) 02:39, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

 Done -- That last bit was a good wording suggestion, thanks. Cirt (talk) 02:50, 14 December 2007 (UTC).

Samuel French

I don't know why, but people keep erroneously wikilinking to this. There are articles for Samuel French, the person, and Samuel French Ltd., the UK division of the USA company, but no article for the U.S. company itself. 02:35, 14 December 2007 (UTC).

It's the same company. See the (formerly) wikilinked article, and the link to the company page at that article. PRRfan (talk) 02:39, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

It's not the same company. The wikilink goes to the division, the appropriate wikilink would be the parent company. There is no Wikipedia article about the parent company. Cirt (talk) 02:46, 14 December 2007 (UTC).

Think that's a distinction without much of a difference here. In any case, the situation is easily rectified. PRRfan (talk) 02:56, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

• Great, thanks! Cirt (talk) 02:58, 14 December 2007 (UTC).

Citation placement

In an article about a topic like this one, it is quite useful and indeed in some situations is even necessary to have the citation placement the way it is. It reinforces and backs up the information in the article. Also, if cites are removed, then in the future in may become difficult to figure out which cite went where, to back up what. Cirt (talk) 02:46, 14 December 2007 (UTC).

disambig

Pageant needs disambig. Randomblue (talk) 10:07, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Page protection

When will people start protecting featured pages? Just like Uranus, many times, this was vantalized. nihil (talk) 11:17, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

It's generally not considered desirable. The argument is that we present ourselves a the encylopedia anyone can edit, and if the first page they try to edit is protected...it doesn't leave a good impression. I disagree with this reasoning, few new editors make constructive changes to the FA. But it's not such a big deal because the FA is carefuly watched, and bots do not observe the 1RR on it. Puchiko (Talk-email) 13:36, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

The primary goal of protecting pages is to prevent vandalism from staying in an article. Any article that is currently or recently a featured article has enough people patrolling it that the threat of vandalism not being dealt with is basically nonexistent. Honestly, protecting an article with as high visibility as a featured article is extremely undesirable given Wikipedia's "anyone can edit" policy. --Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 19:36, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

On that note, as the FAC nominator, I just wanted to express my thanks to all those Admins and Editors that have been doing a great job working hard at patrolling this page and reverting vandalism. Cirt (talk) 19:38, 14 December 2007 (UTC).

I noticed that it had been changed, and at first thought it was a mistake. There are some idiots on wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dragon909 (talk • contribs)

Maybe we can encourage these vandals to investigate Scientology for themselves. It would be a win all around: they'd leave the article -- & hopefully the rest of Wikipedia -- alone, the Scientologists would enjoy a new revenue stream group of members, & the vandals would gain a better appreciation for the subject of this article! -- llywrch (talk)

Funny, but now we're getting off on a tangent not constructive/related to improving the article. Cirt (talk) 20:39, 14 December 2007 (UTC).

Nice article

If it was not FAOTD I would address some of the wikilinking that needs to be done. But that can wait. Congratulations!--Filll (talk) 23:48, 14 December 2007 (UTC).

• Thank you! Cirt (talk) 06:04, 15 December 2007 (UTC).

Avoid wikilinking within quoted text

Please see WP:MOSLINK. Cirt (talk) 21:33, 17 December 2007 (UTC).

Cites in Plot summary

True, cites are not needed in the Plot summary section, but I don't think we need to take them out, and I think that commenting them out is an unnecessary amount of coding and actually makes it even more difficult to see what is cited to what. The article passed as WP:FA with the cites in the Plot summary section, and particularly with a subject as controversial as this one - I think that it's better to have the Plot summary backed up to the cites. Cirt (talk) 21:45, 19 December 2007 (UTC).

new york and la

This is what this article says now:

When the production company first arrived in Los Angeles, the cast and crew were "intimidated" by Scientologists.[28] Scientology officials visited the theatre in the midst of rehearsals and handed out "documentation of court cases where the Church of Scientology had successfully prosecuted those seeking to disparage the Church's methods."[28] Director/creator Alex Timbers characterized these events as "terrifically wonderful and intimidating".[28]

This is what the cited source says:

But the show hit something of a glitch when it arrived in Los Angeles. While New York officials of the Church of Scientology took a decidedly liberal view of the production in public - it's such a little, insignificant thing in the cosmic scheme of things, they declared, that we're just going to ignore it - behind the scenes it made it clear that it was less than happy with the production. Church officials visited rehearsals; they helpfully produced documentation of court cases where the Church of Scientology had successfully prosecuted those seeking to disparage the Church's methods. "It was terrifically wonderful and intimidating," notes the show's creator and director Alex Timbers. A similar formula has prevailed in LA: don't give the production the oxygen of publicity. But behind the scenes the wheels of organised religion were spinning. As soon as the Church got wind of an LA Times piece on the production, several editors on the paper received calls from the guardians of L Ron's flame urging them to pull the article. Nothing unusual about that, as any entertainment PR will tell you. But things took a more sinister turn when the phone calls started.

(emphasis mine, obviously). It seems pretty clear to me that the source is describing the visits to rehearsals, etc. as happening in New York, not LA. Does anyone disagree?P4k (talk) 22:04, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, fixed as per source. Cirt (talk) 22:25, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Cited in Chicagoist

• Mikel, Amy (November 19, 2008). "A Scientology Christmas Pageant?". Chicagoist. Gothamist LLC. Retrieved 2008-11-19.

This Wikipedia article was cited in Chicagoist, for information about the history of Reception of the play since its 2003 debut. Cirt (talk) 19:53, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Other Productions

According to the Indianapolis Star article "Comic Pageant looks at Scientology", on July 27, 2008, Theatre on the Square in Indianapolis put on a production of the play from July through August, 2008. The sense of humor of the producer, Ron Spencer, was supposed to have been evident in the amusing headpieces and the ship portholes used to convey one-liners and amusing props. John Carter (talk) 22:21, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Is the article available online? Cirt (talk) 22:35, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Only by paying for it, I'm afraid. John Carter (talk) 22:38, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Okay I will see if I can view this. Cirt (talk) 22:40, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Remember that policy does not forbid citing the article, even if it's behind a pay wall, or otherwise not freely available on the web. --Baylink@en.wp —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.34.94.26 (talk) 02:18, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Sure, but would still need to view the actual article, in order to add sourced material from it. -- Cirt (talk) 02:22, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Stuff to add

[1], [2] Cirt (talk)

 Done. Cirt (talk) 08:00, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Disclaimer inaccurate

The Disclaimer on the Cast album is factually inaccurate: the trademarks it mentions are owned by "The Religious Technology Center, Inc.", and licensed to the Church of Scientology. the "Church" even admits as much: http://www.scientology.org/tmnotice.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.34.94.26 (talk • contribs)

It is meant to be a parody and a satire - forms of comedy. -- Cirt (talk) 02:21, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

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