Talk:Abyss (Dungeons & Dragons)

Sources of Information

Recently user 205.188.117.67 moved several of the planes in this article to different levels, for example:

• Demogorgon from 666 to 88
• Orcus from 333 to 133

The problem is neither the original nor the new have any sources. What we need her are references, and in the lack of any other references I am about to move Orcus back as he is clearly referenced as 333 in module H4 The Throne of Bloodstone.

I am sure there is some condratictory info in different sources (this is fictional after all) So I propose the following precedence of sources as the primary entry (alternatived can be noted at the end of an entry)

• Official Manuals/Accesories/Modules by TSR or Wizards of the Coast
• Liscenced D&D Manuals/Accesories/Modules by other publishers
• Dragon/Dungeon/RPGA magazine articles
• Other Manuals/Accesories/Modules
• Other Magazines

Within any level the order of precedence should be most recent highest. Referenced material (Product with date and page prefered) always takes precedence over non referenced.

- Waza 05:43, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

In the latest edition of Manual of the Planes (2001), Thanatos is listed as the 113th layer of the Abyss. If theres no objections I will update the list to reflect this and add a new reference too. Lewis 01:46, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes. If you have checked the reference and it is the most recent one update the article. I think even though this is a fiction cosmology we should in general be regarding the most recent info as correct. However leave the old references there also (as there is a note currently then the layer number is in dispute) to show different sources list different. - Waza 05:45, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

I've done that, I've also noted that there are a number of references quoted in many of the edit summaries on the history page that have not been directly added to the article. When I have time I'll check these out and add them. Also just wondering if it is really necessary to have two references to the same source for just different sections of one book? - Lewis 12:39, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

I certainly don't claim to be any sort of expert on referencing but I think the referencing is starting to look very good. I know this is the sort of article that needs to be well referenced for two very strong reasons. (1) There is probably contradictory info in different sources, as as this is fictional which is the "right" one so we need to let people know sources so they can have all the info. (2) This is exaclty the sort of article that those who want do delete everything fictional pick on. By making well referneced what we are definately writing here is not fictional but encyclopedic refereincing material about fiction. - Waza 05:32, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

One issue... some parts of this article are written as if they are real world events...should be changed a bit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.64.52.110 (talk) 01:24, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Moved information

Upon this article being turned into a redirect, I have moved (and slightly adapted) the former article's content to Canon:Abyss at Dungeons and Dragons Wiki, where notability is not an issue, so that the content is not "lost". Daranios (talk) 17:39, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Canon consistency

No original research of course, but can it be insinuated anywhere in the canon that since beliefs create the outer planes, and beliefs can slide realms from the world / prime material plane into the outer ring plane of their alignment when such alignment thereon becomes overwhelming (just like the astral pocket city of Curst in the official Planescape video game Torment slid into Carceri/Tartarus). Is it then possible that just as Gods have portfolios and can attain, lose, amend or take on the persona/mantel of a specific role vis a vis alignment & purpose, that also the outer plane realms (based as they are in the astral and consisting of belief) can take on their purpose from places originating elsewhere? For example, the bottom of the elemental chaos in what were the 'inner planes' and the touching elemental paraplanes, gave rise to a demi-plane of absolute elemental chaos made evil by Tharizdun and became harkened as "The Abyss", being so chaotic and evil in equal measure that it took on the planar 'portfolio' of the astral plane of aligned chaotic-evil (in equal measure, between the more biased chaotic evil planar portfolios of Pandemonium & Carceri) and that 'The Abyss' can then thus be reached at its physical location at the bottom of the elemental chaos in the inner planes, for that is the area which has attained the portfolio for that alignment-plane, yet also in its alignment orientation can be found in the astral on the great ring due to beliefs putting it there? Likewise perhaps for example Baator floats freely as a concentric orb within the astral, but exists as 'Hell' (its name due to its portfolio) on the great ring alongside the edges of the astral on the outer planes, since due to its portfolio of being the plane of law & evil in equal measure when it is reached on the astral as a finite pocket plane of Baator, one finds themselves in the infinite red skies of Avernus in Hell that only touch the flanges, and then by gate keys or the Styx, the adjacent great ring planes gehenna & acheron as Hell is an inverse mountain as its portfolio suggests in counter-proportion to the seven heavens (modeled from Mount Celestia which took that planar portfolio) but takes on its specific traits out of the orb astral pocket fortress of Baator for it was what was lawful and evil enough in mutual proportion to be raised to the distinction of being Hell? 24.20.95.50 (talk) 12:34, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

I don't think we should be trying to draw any conclusions from the material in the books, just reporting what they say. 129.33.19.254 (talk) 16:22, 28 February 2013 (UTC)