Talk:Ach Gott, wie manches Herzeleid

Musical settings

Apart from Bach, there are also settings by Praetorius, Schein, Scheidt, Kauffmann, Fasch, Krebs, Doles and Reger (No. 32 of his 52 easy preludes, Op 67). See [1]. Mathsci (talk) 16:42, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Go ahead, add. The above question was when this was a dab page. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:40, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your replies. Mathsci (talk) 04:19, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Lochamer issues

The sentence

The anonymous hymn tune of "Herr Jesu Christ, meins Lebens Licht" first appeared in Wolflein Lochamer's Lochamer-Liederbuch, printed in Nürnberg around 1455 with the secular title, "Ich fahr dahin, wann es muß sein".

which is currently in the lead section seems dubious at best:

• It is close paraphrased from the source (bach-cantatas.com)
• The source, bach-cantatas.com, does not comply to WP:RS
• The Lochamer-Liederbuch was not "printed" around 1455, as the source contends: around that time it was exclusively a manuscript: it wasn't printed until several centuries later.
• The melody of the secular "Ich fahr dahin, wann es muß sein" song of the Lochamer-Liederbuch has no real resemblance to the (Zahn 533) "Herr Jesu Christ, meins Lebens Licht" tune.
• I found no other source, apart from Wikipedia(-derivatives), contending that the "Ich fahr dahin, wann es muß sein" of the Lochamer-Liederbuch would be related to the "Herr Jesu Christ, meins Lebens Licht" hymn tune. As in: no source at all, not even an unreliable one, leave alone a reliable one.

All in all this is WP:REDFLAG big time, and I'll be removing the claim, and its deficient source, per WP:CHALLENGE. That means, if the claim is brought back (as well the "printed around 1455" as the likeness of one of its melodies to the later hymn tune) then one would need a more credible source. --Francis Schonken (talk) 22:19, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Comment on the Lochamer-Liederbuch

The Lochamer-Liederbuch is a 15th-century document some of which has been downloaded on commons. (Some of the pages there have higher reolution version of the pages.) The collection is one of the oldest documented books of German songs. The abschiedslied "Ich fahr dahin, wenn es muß sein" is one of the traditional folk songs arranged by Johannes Brahms; equally well it goes back to the 15-century collection, but the documentation is harder to trace back. There are very few songs in the collection: identifying the song from the page was fairly straightforward. In fact, as others can verify, the information/history about "Ich fahr dahin" and its secular nature were explicitly mentioned in the reference for the Bach-Cantatas website. Mathsci (talk) 04:30, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Just for assurance, the Brahms-Handbuch and the Carus Loreley choir books for German folk tunes all list "Ich fahr dahin" as part of the Lochamer-Liederbuch. The tune is in triple time just like Zahn's. Mathsci (talk) 07:57, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Here is an external link from the Lochamer-Liederbuch [2] in the Historical Bavarian Lexicon. It discusses Bernard of Clairvaux and the song "Ich fahr dahin" from the Liederbuch. Using the lexicon's links, it is easy to navigate the song titles. Mathsci (talk) 17:00, 24 June 2020 (UTC)