Talk:Adirondack Phantoms

Teams in Adirondack

There have definately been more teams in Glens Falls. I know there was at least the Frostbite and the Icehawks, there may have been more but this page says the Phantoms are the second pro team in Glens Falls, however they are at least the 4th. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.46.59.244 (talk) 03:01, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I changed it to second American Hockey League team since you are correct. --24.102.232.53 (talk) 00:29, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Necessary?

Are two separate pages for the Philadelphia and Adirondack Phantoms really necessary? --scottieISmad (talk) 00:13, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes. ccwaters (talk) 01:11, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

And why? Tom Danson (talk) 04:25, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Because we like to be able to maintain the full history of each incarnation of franchises rather than condense that history into a paragraph or two. It is a standard we prefer to keep within the hockey project. WP:NOTPAPER and the like. As a related example from a baseball article I worked on, Calgary Cannons is a GA, even though the franchise is now the Albuquerque Isotopes. Calgary has a lot of history that nobody in New Mexico cares about and thus would otherwise be lost. Same here, the new Adirondack team will have its own identity, and there is no reason to sacrifice Philadelphia's history in the process. Resolute 17:26, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

There's no reason to have two seperate articles for the same team. Same franchise, owners, players, logos, everything is the same except the city. this includes the history of the team in Philly! And especially becuase Glens Falls is planned as a temporary move until a venue closer to Philly is build or secured. --Bhockey10 (talk) 03:31, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually the plan is to move it to the Lehigh Valley which is not near Philadelphia. Oh and the owners are different as well. -Djsasso (talk) 14:49, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

oops thats a typo about the owners, btw the Lehigh Valley is ajacent to/and many people commute into the Philadelphia Metro Area. But it doesn't make sense to have three seperate articles for the same team, especially if the 2nd article is a temporary move. there are examples of teams not being split when the same franchise and team is simply moved to a new location see: Nova Scotia Voyageurs and Montreal Voyageurs. The current Phantoms still recognize the same history as when the team was in Philadelphia. --Bhockey10 (talk) 19:12, 19 June 2009 (UThttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bhockey10C)

1) Pending the construction of an venue that's not even in any preliminary planning stage and has absolutely no gaurantee of ever being built. The team has lease options to stay in Glens Falls. 2) To say the lehigh valley is a suburban Philly is a stretch. The drive from philly to allentown is well over an hour on a good day on the northeast extension. ccwaters (talk) 19:49, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

You will find those cases usually consist of teams that are pre-internet era where its hard to find enough information to have multiple articles, or they are cases where no one has been interested enough to create the second article because the teams are long dead. But neither case is true of this team, there will be many sources and much information to be found to support two articles and there will clearly be people interested in the seperate incarnations as people in Adirondack that will now be fans were probably not fans when the team was in Philly and people in philly except those die hards flyers fans will be less likely to follow the team when in Adirondack. Making a link from one article to the other a more efficient use of resources. Allowing both articles to grow into much fuller articles because of it. When you cram two locations into one article both team incarnations are hurt by space constraints causing information to have to be cut, by having two pages you can have a much fuller and detailed history of both. -Djsasso (talk) 04:47, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose merge per my comment above. Resolute 13:38, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose I would have to oppose merging back to Philadelphia Phantoms as it is the standard with hockey teams that we split them when they change locations. This has been discussed many times and it comes down to WP:NOTPAPER and a location change is a bright red line location for a split of two articles. -Djsasso (talk) 14:46, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose I see now that the Philadelphia Phantoms have a very unique history, and the Adirondack Phantoms will put together a legacy of their own. Therefore, both should be separate articles. Tom Danson (talk) 20:38, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

• And quite aside from anything else - happily, this issue seems to be settled in the fashion accustomed to the Wikiproject - the AHL's practice in its media guides is to treat a relocation as a new franchise with new records; the records for the Hamilton Bulldogs, for instance, certainly don't include the Quebec Citadelles, the Fredericton or Sherbrooke Canadiens or the Nova Scotia Voyageurs, even with a franchise with forty years of unbroken lineage and affiliation with the same NHL team.  Ravenswing  07:36, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Name

Where has it been confirmed that the team will be playing as the "Adirondack Phantoms"? I've seen quotes in the poststar.com stating that the principal owner likes the "phantoms" name, but that's hardly solid. ccwaters (talk) 01:13, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

[1] --scottieISmad (talk) 01:23, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Also, consider the following: "The league's board of governors, meeting today in Chicago, approved the transfer of ownership of the Philadelphia Phantoms to a newly formed entity known as Phantoms Hockey LLC, owned by the Brooks Group."[2] Why name it Phantoms Hockey LLC if they don't intend on keeping the name? --scottieISmad (talk) 01:27, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Records

dont all the records from philly come over to glens falls with the phantoms? Warriorshockey1 (talk) 16:52, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

That's not the AHL's practice.  Ravenswing  02:29, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

The Glens Falls Post Star is currently counting Phantoms records when discussing Adirondack AHL team records. Should the records, accomplishments of the Redwings be mentioned or included here on this page as well? 67.240.27.168 (talk) 06:22, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Certainly not. The Adirondack Red Wings have their own page. What the Glens Falls newspaper decides to do is their own business, but Adirondack doesn't get to count the Philadelphia Phantoms' Calder Cups any more than Peoria gets to count the Springfield Indians' Cups.  Ravenswing  09:34, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Temporary home?

The Philadelphia Phantoms article suggests that Glens Falls is just a temporary home until a new arena is built in Allentown, PA. There is no mention of that in this article. Is this still true? (Disclosure: I recently made some edits to this section of the Philadelphia Phantoms article, but just readability enhancements. I didn't modify any substance) -Sme3 (talk) 13:47, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I would be weary of the assumption. Unless I'm mistaken, there's absolutely no formal developments on any arena in the lehigh valley and given the current economic climate, nothing is definite (See also Lehigh Valley Xtreme). The only thing that is definite is the Phantoms have a 3 year lease with options for 2 seasons afterwards. They are as temporary or permanent as any other minor league team. ccwaters (talk) 16:23, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

To put it another way: the only sourced statement regarding this matter is: The Brooks Group expressed interest in eventually operating in the Lehigh Valley [3]. That really doesn't say much. ccwaters (talk) 16:53, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

This is a good bit more definite (and recent) as to the group's intentions: [4] There's still no financing in place, although the necessary legislation has passed, and the Allentown Morning Call take on it is that with "a little luck, and a lot of work" an arena could be ready as early as the 2012-13 season. It's enough to keep in the article, in any event.  Ravenswing  09:43, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

As long as its not presented a foregone conclusion. ccwaters (talk) 13:55, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Allentown Phantoms

I Propose that a page be made for the Pending Allentown Phantoms. Being that pages that are for other things that are not current yet-but are in the near future. --Bkopicz3 (talk) 00:53, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

We generally do create new articles for new incarnations of relocated franchises, and Allentown is unlikely to be any different. It'll likely happen when the relocation is confirmed by the AHL. Resolute 13:56, 14 March 2012 (UTC)