Talk:Adrian Rus

Unclear

For me it's unclear if he is of Hungarian descent. Because I know that in Hungary in the last years you could have got a passport with less than those 8 years of continuous residency in the country. Rus started his 5th season registration with a Hungarian football club. Message me if you can prove wrong but if we can find several sources and most likely declarations, interviews. Indeed, he also holds a Hungarian passport (double citizenships). But Rus says "he was a little upset at HIS country of Romania and now that the Hungarian chapter is closed for him, now only Romania exists for him." 25 March 2019 at Gazeta Sporturilor Machiaveli77 (talk) 21:43, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

@Machiaveli77:,

You should know also then for such "quick" citizenship you have to speak Hungarian and having an ancestor Hungarian or Hungarian citizen. What you are quoting, is nothing more than which country he intends to represent at national level, it has no connection to any origin. Btw. he speaks Hungarian on mother tongue level. Having Hungarian descent is 99,99999999999999999999 %.(09:29, 22 August 2019 (UTC))

@KIENGIR:,

Can you provide please a declaration from Rus that he has a parent at least of Hungarian origin? I know a few Romanian informaticians who were after Hungarian citizenship some years ago (to emigrate to the US and Canada), and there was absolutely nothing about Hungarian origin. Can be these true, and in what conditions? And I am interested in sportsmen regulation. Because I see a Brazilian was naturalised in order to play for the Hungarian NT and he's playing. But he had a lot more seasons than Rus in Hungary. According to this article, some non-Hungarian origin Romanians asked for the Hungarian citizenship and it was enough to have even Romanian ancestors born in the Kingdom of Hungary, part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. Plus to speak Hungarian. Is this true? Cetățenie precară Machiaveli77 (talk) 12:25, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

In 2011 according to a functionary of a Romanian town you only needed to have an acestor of any origin living in the Kingdom of Hungary before 1921 (the Treaty of Trianon). Basically a relative who lived in the kingdom. You had to prove this. This is not from his blog, but from a regional newspaper. Machiaveli77 (talk) 12:30, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

@Machiaveli77:,

I am not so much interested in the topic to hunt a "declaration", because it is far beyond any common sense. Read again, please: you have to speak Hungarian and having an ancestor Hungarian OR Hungarian citizen. Thus your further conclusion about informaticians or the article did not contradict my argumentation. Thus, to your question, the answer is yes, however "part of the Austo-Hungarian Empire" is irrelevant, since pre-1921 means back to "infinity". However, there are exceptions, especially for the Csángós who are unable to proove when they left Hungary, by church and religion papers may also prove their affiliation/origin. This is not the case of Vinícius, who acquired citizenship not based the passus of the citizenship law that concerns jus sanguinis or former Hungarian subjects. There are many ethnic Romanians in Satu Mare county who speak Hungarian (mostly the elder generations), but he is too young, and speaks on mother tongue, hence I said 99,9999999%.(KIENGIR (talk) 11:53, 22 August 2019 (UTC))

Maybe the best way is to add a source regarding that he also holds a Hungarian passport? And the people would draw the conclusion he could also be of Hungarian descent. Btw off topic the Digi HU title is hilarous, if you look at Arena Nationala, Ion Oblemenco, Cluj Arena, Pandurii Stadium, Astra Giurgiu arena, Dr Constantin Radulescu Stadium, Steaua, Rapid Stadium, and another 10 which are coming some being under construction. Plus there is a rule now in Liga I that you must use 2 players under-21. In Liga II I think that 5. According to FRF we have 80 academies granted by UEFA in Romania. Machiaveli77 (talk) 17:53, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Ok let's do that, but this qualifies to add also the Hungarian name of him, and we avoid adding the category until someone does not come up with some decisive proof. Regarding the title, it has not connection to necessarily DIG HU, but the summary of the discussion presented in the video, it does not represent my view, even I'd have to watch again who's summary is that (reporter? Rus? someone else?), thus I have no further reaction to this, I did not study the issue.(KIENGIR (talk) 17:05, 22 August 2019 (UTC))

Well, he clearly speaks Hungarian. I just think we should avoid saying he is of Hungarian descent or adding Hungarian name, because I am not sure he is. What if in 5 seasons of Hungary he learned Hungarian? They also told him to prepare playing for the Hungarian NT since for Romania his chances could have been a lot lower. Remember when a Hungarian nationalistic or maybe unprofessional newspaper wrote the Hungarian federation is after Florin Gardos. And Gardos says he has this name since long time ago but has no Hungarian connection (he wanted to clarify this). I don't mind at all, just to be Hungarian(s). Also be careful with some Romanians who sound Hungarian, because I have several friends with Hungarian last name but with no Hungarian ancestors from what they know. They might have been a subject of Magyarisation. Respectfully, sometimes it may happen even for privileges. We talk of centuries of past. Machiaveli77 (talk) 19:17, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

If you understood me correctly, we agreed we do not say he is of Hungarian descent, but the Hungarian name is valid, since he holds Hungarian nationality as well (the two is not the one and the same). No, because it would have been apparent (and there has been a lot of Romanians with much more longer career not speaking a sentence necessarily in Hungarian, mother tongue level can be identified in 3 seconds). Regarding nationalistic or maybe unprofessional newspaper issue, unfortunately I met such better in Romania. Gardos (Gárdos) is an obviously Hungarian-origin family name, however, since more hundred years ago there has been migration both sides of the Carpathians, thus many Romanians from long generation may hold just the name, but nohing else. You can be sure I am careful enough, I am well experienced regarding such issues (though the opposite might have been also happened afterwards, Romanianization of the Hungarian family names, this is a complex issue). Regarding possible privileges - as you referred the informaticians - exist also among Hungarians in Romania, who are intending to leave the country to the West.(KIENGIR (talk) 17:49, 22 August 2019 (UTC))

Well, his name might be a subject of descendancy, but I am telling you I really don't care since Romania is progressing. Not that we don't fight, but I leave from me to make you satisfied or happy. :) Regarding press, I am working in the press, therefore if you ever want to draw conclusions based on evidence I invite you to Bucharest but only if you stay 3 weeks. This is how you make social study. Romania is large, journalism isn't anymore at the level of the 90s here but also the Hungarians no longer write in the US. We have more media money, old and new blocks of headquarters. A lot more journalists, a lot more bloggers, vloggers, whatever. Of course that sometimes we are more Balkan than American, but this is also because the journalism salaries are not top in Romania. Please don't confuse Romania with Turkey or your neighbours. We have a prestigious media like it happens also in Poland. You basically have limited and I think also subjective knowledges (underrating Romania) about the businesses in Romania especially in big towns and specially in Bucharest. Nationalism as patriotism there is here, but extremism is really low and one of the lowest if not the lowest in the area. Romania is focusing a lot less on Hungary, than Hungary on Romania. We don't even focus so much on Moldova, we focus almost 0 on Timoc, Serbia and Bukovina, Ukraine. This would be really outdated. No, regarding those informaticians, they were really non-Hungarian ethnicity. You always have to draw conclusions based on evidences, not on what some would say. Well, you wrote a lot about facts on your page.

Regarding Florin Gardos, how can be a Romanisation in Communism if his family doesn't speak Hungarian at all? Moreover they don't even know they are of Hungarian descent? Gardos was surely Magyarised. I have friends with Hungarian name who are 100% Romanians. A case of Romanisation was Lajos Sătmăreanu. Machiaveli77 (talk) 18:00, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Dear @Machiaveli77:,

thank you for "making me happy" :), I agree any fight is useless, since intelligent people may discuss everything correctly and properly. Thank you for your invitation, however fortunately you are discussing with an editor that knows Romania not just superficially, but in a very andvanced manner since a long time, and not just Transylvania I discovered, if you'd think this at first glance (you can be fully sure I don't confuse you with Turkey or other neighboring countries, since Romania is unique and special in many manners comparing to them). Yes, in some fields there are nevertheless significant progress. About jorunalism and, there is as well a progress, however regarding Hungarian-related topics even now sometimes two sudden and hot things are happening, however this part of our nations history, we have to however make a difference on history or sport related topics (however, I was referring to the Bicfalvi-case, when the Romanian press (also the most renowned) without any limit pushed the Swedish-joke, presenting him a Swedish-origin at all the manners, while Hungarians where laughing that not just his name, mother tongue, but his family is Hungarian :) It went so far in his wiki page, that some groups systematically destroyed any information that would refer to anything Hungarian, until it became indefendable, since again a video had to be shown with the player speaking in mother tongue Hungarian, and after the Transylvanian Hungarian press interviewed his mother, who openly declared there is no Swedish line and it's a joke because he is blond by his mates, still because of the RS policy it could not be completely removed his Swedish origin that is heavily dubious, even when some claim one of his gradparents like so, however, the stupidity became less when he was considering to play for Hungary, but it was so much significant how his Hungarian being was institutionally supressed from the beginning) So fisrt of all, please take my critics recently for this case.

You basically have limited and I think also subjective knowledges -> I don't know if this you meant for me, or average Hungarians, thus I don't react to that now

Yes, outside Transylvania, and even the capital does not matter where you from, people are not even bothered in other regions, even they are amazing what an average Hungarian would do outside Transylvania, if he is not an official/politician, but when there are football matches, this quickly change, however it does not matter where the match is made inside Romania, since the fans, although the Steaua and Dinamo fans even without Hungarians recurrently punch each other, even when they were together in Budapest, but could not agree on the protocoll how top cheer their team.

Romania is focusing a lot less on Hungary -> maybe a lot less, but still we are on the first place, if it is about any international affair, or anything, with this topic the attention maybe drawn, shall it be history, or any other matters, those who recurrently generating incidents live well from this, however the ordinary people are mostly nice with each other and does not really want to care about conflicts. However, even by the moderate Romanians, there are a healthy (or even sometimes more :) ) rivalry with Hungarians in every manner.

As I said, I know people from Satu Mare with strict Romanian ethnicity are taking Hungarian citizenship, we discussed this entirely. Don't worry, I like to draw conclusions from evidence, mainly and hoping this as well in the future also by others!

What I said generally I did not say about Gardos, but as I referred there are families who left Hungary more hundred years ago, and they have been assimilated (not by any pressure or whatsoever), and they are the holder only of the Hungarian origin name, but since long generations they don't speak the language and have even Orthodox faith, it is enough one intermarriage 300 years ago for that and far beyond any Magyarization or Romanianization mainly people would think at first glance. Thus we cannot say for sure his ancestors would have been Magyarized, simply i.e. 150 years ago one of his paternal ancestor may have been Hungarian.(KIENGIR (talk) 22:17, 24 August 2019 (UTC))

References

Rus does not speak Hungarian on mother tongue since he is not Hungarian at all (100% Romanian confirmed by him for FRF)

Are you even Hungarian, users who were admitting Rus is of Hungarian descent and speaks Hungarian on mother tongue? Because I am 100% Romanian, my mother cried with joy that I was convoked to the senior national team of Romania. At the age of 19, I took Hungarian citizenship just to be good for the club I played in Hungary! His club received money from the Hungarian federation for being Hungarian. We have clarified, you should also change his name into a Romanian one at the Romanian and Hungarian Wikipedias. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sileks4 (talk • contribs) 14:16, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

Maybe you missed to read properly the earlier conversation. The descent is not clarified in a satisfied way, but he speaks at mother tongue level (contrary to your statement, that anyway can be verified by anyone on the linked video). His statement does not exclude Hungarian origin, he may feel 100% Romanian, but even if he is surely not of any Hungarian descent, the changes you made are not commensurable with this, since per the earlier consensus we let the page on that stage that he is NOT of Hungarian origin (but anyway holds Hungarian nationalty as well). Maybe you don't know for sure how WP works, no modification is needed, since the article's name is Romanian here, in the Hungarian WP (as in every WP), anybody is reffered on that name that is used/common/official there.(KIENGIR (talk) 21:24, 2 September 2019 (UTC))

Rus does not say he FEELS, but IS 100% Romanian. He obtained citizenship in order the Hungarian club to get money from the Hungarian federation. A modification is still needed, with the statement for the FRF. And why do we need to keep a Hungarian name if he is not of Hungarian descent at all? Sileks4 (talk • contribs) 19:41, 2 September 2019

”Sunt 100% român! Abia la 19 ani am mers în Ungaria și am luat cetățenia, dintr-o prostie! A fost un episod neplăcut. Mi-am luat cetățenia maghiară atunci, pentru că asta era benefică clubului. Pe vremea aceea, în Ungaria, dacă eram maghiar, clubul primea niște bani din partea Federației.” VIDEO Adrian Rus, subiectul scandalului dintre FRF și Fehervar. ”Sunt 100% român! Mama a plâns de fericire!” Sileks4 (talk • contribs) 19:44, 2 September 2019

You did not gave me any new information, he may have said what he feels, but as i explained, it does not matter, since also until know he was not presented as being of Hungarian origin. To the other issue, because he has Hungarian citizenship, as it has been explained more times earlier.(KIENGIR (talk) 20:16, 3 September 2019 (UTC))