Talk:Aegis

Norse mythology

I found this section to be very incoherent as it freely mixed non-Norse fiction (sourced from the "Niebelungenlied") with Norse tradition (as known from the Sagas). As the heading was "Norse mythology", and as I quickly realized that no clarification or sources could be given on those parts of the text that were inherently wrong, I decided to wipe the German fiction from the Norse section. German fiction may build on Old Norse tradition, and it may be very similar at places, but it is definitely not the same thing. clsc (talk) 15:59, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

I finally removed the section about supposed connections to Norse and Egyptian mythology for not providing any citations whatsoever. These sections were marked as lacking citations since December 2016. Larkusix (talk) 14:05, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

Aegis: a speculative alternate etymology without a reference

"Alternatively it has been suggested that it was originally symbolic of the storm-cloud and derived from aisso, signifying rapid, violent motion. Another possible etymology is from the root Αιγ- (Aeg-) meaning wave, as per Αιγαίον (Aegean) = wavy sea." This is not Greek. A long list of "bright" and "goat" Aeg- phonyms can be found in the index to Robert Graves' The Greek Myths. No need to repeat them here. --Wetman 15:30, 1 June 2006 (UTC) I have toned down the etymology of aegis from goat-skin. The etymology is uncertain, now as in classical times.Skamnelis (talk) 23:47, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Shouldn't this link to a "fictional armour" or "mythical shields" section?

sorry, i don't really know how to use wiki, beyond searching, but it'd make sense to me, since there's a fictional swords category..

A comment on the non-signed comment above: "Fiction" and "Myth" are two separate words with different meaning. Myth relates to tradition, whereas fiction relates to imagination. clsc (talk) 16:16, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Commercial Spam

I took the liberty of removing Nabisco202's spam link to Aegis medical systems of California, which was added on Sept. 5, without discussing the edit first. I hope that was proper protocol jackbrown

I moved a blurb about Aegis Security Systems to its own article and put a link on the disambiguation page. Oops, I got the edit comment wrong -- I put the new page's comment on this page and don't know how to fix it. The Aegis Security Systems page looks slightly out of bounds -- no justification, seems slightly promotional, so I am probably going to go fix that as well. Ducky (talk) 08:10, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Comic book-super hero crap

doesn't all the comic book superhero crap belong on the disambiguation page. It's sort of absurd looking in the context of a semi-serious encyclopedia article. --jackbrown

Central gorgon head

...furnished with golden tassels and bearing the gorgoneion (Medusa's head) in the central boss.

I'm pretty sure the gorgon head in the centre of Aegis is not Medusa, but her mother, Aix. Does anyone have citation that the face was Medusa?--FruitMonkey 16:00, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

What makes you pretty sure? --Wetman 00:40, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Good point. The only citation I can find so far is on this web site. But they do quote Greek text. http://www.theoi.com/Titan/GorgoAix.html

I think there are multiple myths as there are many quotes that Athena placed Medusa's head onto the shield after she retrieved the shield from Perseus. But if Zeus used the Aegis to defeat the Titans (with the gorgon head attached), this would predate the birth of Athena. Does Homer mention Medusa by name in the Illiad, or does he just say gorgan?--FruitMonkey 10:29, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

"Before" and "after" within myths or dreams are applied after the fact, to try to tie it all together, as in the synthesised "biographies" of Christian mythology. in Greek myths, alternative versions abound. --Wetman (talk) 08:19, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

First: Myths are not dreams! Also, Christian "mythology" is not always comparable to other mythologies, and other mythologies are not always inter-comparable either. Some of the stories that go by the name of "mythologies" (some are "just" stories) are more coherent than others. True, the Ancient Greeks tried hard to fit the whole universe+the kitchen zink into their mythologies, and made lots of changes. But, it would be wrong to say that because (you assume that) the Greeks (or the Christians) did this or that, that all mythologies inevitably do the same thing. (not to offend, IIRC, IMHO, and so on...) clsc (talk) 16:59, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Now On-topic: Perhaps "The Gorgoneion" and "a gorgon head" is not the exact same thing? It seems to me that "The Gorgoneion" could well be a distinct "gorgon head" -- perhaps that of Medusa, perhaps another head, but a distinct one used in this specific context (by Homer? above quote is unsourced). Whereas "a gorgon head" could then be any head with the same properties as "The Gorgoneion" (possibly even including "The Gorgoneion"). Just a thought, things are often getting mixed up on the basis of similar names, this could be one such instance. However, I agree that it would be good if someone could take a quick look at the Illiad and see if Homer specifically mentions Medusa, Aix or nothing. clsc (talk) 16:59, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Why use æ?

Æ wasn't a ligature used in ancient times, why use it here? Arthurian Legend 22:07, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Pure affectation. --Wetman (talk) 08:19, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

I think it gets to a fundamental misinterpretation of the word. I think people assume because it's spelled ae, that it came from æ. Which is also why it's mispronounced as "eegis" But it's from Greek aigis which is pronounced more like the letter a, not e. J1DW (talk) 09:34, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Full of bollox, innit?

I have a Classics degree and can't be arsed figuring it out, but I've a feeling this article is full of bollox. I know a man on wiki who may be able to fix it.:)Merkinsmum 20:51, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

my greek professor just told me that aegis comes from the greek word for goat. Seeing as the genitive form is "aigos", it makes sense to me that a shield made from goatskin ("of a goat") would have its etymological roots in the word… and her being from Greece herself, I suppose she would have heard the folktales from her elders. 99.251.230.51 (talk) 18:14, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

A look at the first post above would help you: "a long list of "bright" and "goat" Aeg- phonyms can be found in the index to Robert Graves' The Greek Myths. No need to repeat them here." That "Classics degree" refered to may have been a prize in a cereal box, as far as we can tell. --Wetman (talk) 08:19, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

I have made some relevant edits. The etymology from goat is doubtful, now as in ancient times. Aex was a daughter of Helios, but in later antiquity she is being confused with a wife of Pan and therefore with an etymology related to goats. Etymologically, Aex may be rather related to Aegle - bright light or lightning. Homer commonly refers to Zeus as the aegis-bearer. Zeus generally held a lightning or thunderbold, not a shield, breastplate or animal skin. In relation to its employment by Apollo, his use of Zeus' thunderbolt would have impressed his enemies more than if he had been attacking them holding a goat-skin. On the other hand, the passages relating to Athena's employment of the aegis suggest it was something she could carry about her shoulders, potentially something that could be worn. Skamnelis (talk) 01:09, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Original research / Improper synthesis in this article?

This article looks a little dodgy to me. It contains many assertions and many cites, but I'm not sure that the cites support the assertions. ** I don't have any problem with being wrong about this, but I'd like to see the evidence that I'm wrong. **

I added an "original research" tag to the article on 26 Aug 2008 and User:Wetman removed it. Rather than edit-war about this I'm mentioning my concern here. -- 201.17.36.246 (talk) 20:35, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Pronounciation

Listed as /ˈiːdʒɨs/, but eɪ:dʒɨs is equally as common in my opinion and both versions are listed on Merriam-Webster online and available for listening and comparison. Is this geographic variation, bastardisation or just people being wrong? Any reason to not list both pronounciations? 77.185.42.5 (talk) 00:21, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

I believe the pronunciation on the page right now is incorrect. I am sure by now it's an acceptable alternative pronunciation but my suspicion is it's wrongly pronounced like "eegis" because of an assumption that the ae comes from Æ, which is incorrect. Aegis comes from Greek Aigis which is pronounced with the "a", not the "e". I agree your suggested pronunciation should be listed. J1DW (talk) 09:38, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

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Missing !!

another usage of Aegis was to denote the right shoulder emblem (not breastplate) of Zeus which was a symbol of his connections across the heavens, giving him (infinite?) power but esp power of the thunderbolt (and of life) ... THAT was, is the overwhelming usage of this term... and sometimes , also appears as a lightning bolt complex shape in Zeus's hand ... the origin of this power connection, was the similar shape symbol underneath the thrones of Pharoahs, the pivot or axle of the heavens, tied heaven to earth by the double stalks of both reeds and lotus woven back and forth to tie heaven to earth, both life and power of heaven to earth ... q.v. Santilla's, Hamlet's Mill, haroon chakrawallah 9 24.186.56.245 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:16, 22 October 2012 (UTC) actually my above remarks are BEYOND Santilla's Hamlet's Mill ; ), "now look up and see, ... be still and know ..." ... lil zoos 2 !!!@24.186.56.245 (talk)

The dominant god in Indoeuropean religions was a sky god: Zeus or Jove, the Germanic Thor, the Scythian Papaios were sky gods. As stated in the relevant article, Zeus is the Greek continuation of *Di̯ēus, the name of the Proto-Indo-European god of the daytime sky, also called *Dyeus ph2tēr ("Sky Father"). There should be no need to seek an origin of the symbolic thunderbolt in Egyptian religion.192.129.2.114 (talk) 19:55, 19 February 2014 (UTC)