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Talk:Aesthetic Realism/drafts4

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Latest comment: 8 days ago by Braxton7248
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Here are my suggested edits to the article on Aesthetic Realism, informed by your observations.

Aesthetic Realism and homosexuality

edit

A controversial aspect of the philosophy concerns the assertion that men and women could change from homosexuality through studying its principles. In 1946 writer and WW II veteran Sheldon Kranz (1919–1980) was the first man to report that he changed from homosexuality through Aesthetic Realism.[1] Kranz said that as his way of seeing the world changed, his sexual preference also changed: from a homosexual orientation (he was no longer impelled toward men) to a heterosexual one that included love for a woman for the first time in his life. Kranz was married for 25 years (until his death) to Obie award-winning actress Anne Fielding.[2]

In keeping with its general approach, Aesthetic Realism views homosexuality as a philosophic matter.[3][4][5] A fundamental principle of the philosophy is that every person is in a fight between contempt for the world and respect for it.[6] Siegel stated that this fight is present as well in homosexuality.[7] In the field of love and sex, a homosexual man prefers the sameness of another man while undervaluing the difference of the world that a woman represents. This undervaluing of difference is a form of contempt for the world; therefore, as a man learns how to like the world honestly, his attitude towards difference changes and this affects every area of his life, including sexual preference.[8]

I suggest cutting the second paragraph in its entirety, especially since consultations on this subject are no longer being offered. This would be helpful in eliminating the “lengthy descriptions of orientation-change efforts”.

Beginning in 1965 supporters of the philosophy began an effort to have press and media report on the change from homosexuality through Aesthetic Realism.[9] In 1971 men (including Kranz) who said they changed through Aesthetic Realism were interviewed on New York City's WNET Channel 13 Free Time show[10] and the David Susskind Show,[11] which had a national syndication. The book The H Persuasion,[12] published that year, contained writing by Siegel detailing his premise about the cause of homosexuality, transcripts of Aesthetic Realism lessons, and narratives by men who said they changed, describing both why they changed and how. In response to requests from men and women wanting to study Aesthetic Realism, Siegel designated four consultation trios, one of which, Consultation With Three, was for the purpose of teaching men who wanted to change from homosexuality. In 1983, five other men who said they had changed from homosexuality were interviewed on the David Susskind Show.[13] The transcript of this interview was published in the 1986 book The Aesthetic Realism of Eli Siegel and the Change from Homosexuality.[14]

Leave beginning of paragraph, cut after “national syndication…”

With the exception of a brief 1971 review calling The H Persuasion "less a book than a collection of pietistic snippets by Believers,"[15] The New York Times never reported that men said they changed from homosexuality through Aesthetic Realism.[16] Students of the philosophy who said they changed from homosexuality or in other large ways accused the press of unfairly withholding information valuable to the lives of people. In the 1970s they mounted an aggressive campaign of telephone calls, letters, ads, and vigils in front of various media offices and at the homes of editors.[17] Many wore lapel buttons that read "Victim of the Press".[18][19]

Fourth Paragraph: Borwse Notes: So, again, we're focusing on victimization and supposed bias in the press. The slant and selection of information here is pretty evident, particularly given what's *omitted*.

Braxton7248: Cut the entire paragraph


In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association declassified homosexuality as a mental disorder.[20] In 1978, ads were placed in three major newspapers stating "we have changed from homosexuality through our study of the Aesthetic Realism of Eli Siegel." They were signed by 50 men and women.[21] With few exceptions, the press in general either ignored or dismissed the assertion of persons who said they changed. [citation needed]

Cut APA here and put at end.

The gay press and gay reporters were generally hostile to Aesthetic Realism.[22] A 1982 Boston Globe article written by "the first openly gay reporter" on its staff,[23] interviewed primarily gay therapists and then reported that the "assertion" of change through Aesthetic Realism was "a claim staggering to psychiatrists and psychologists."[24] About 250 people protested the article on the Boston Common. The Globe's ombudsman later wrote in his column that the article was biased against Aesthetic Realism and that it contained "strong, negative words without attribution" and "inaccuracies".[25]

Cut the entire paragraph

Some gay advocacy groups and gay activists presented Aesthetic Realism as "anti-gay", accusing the philosophy of offering a "gay cure" and expressing skepticism that homosexuality could or should change.[26] Persons within the gay pride movement associated the desire of a man to change from homosexuality with a lack of pride in a gay identity, and saw Aesthetic Realism as biased against a gay lifestyle. The Aesthetic Realism Foundation stated unequivocally that it supported full, completely equal civil rights for homosexuals, including the right of a man or woman to live their life in the way they chose.[27]

Borwse comments: Some gay advocacy groups and gay activists presented Aesthetic Realism as “anti-gay”, due to its promotion of sexual-orientation change. The reason for this opposition is that these efforts are widely viewed as ineffective and often harmful, a position strongly supported by mainstream science and the collapse of ex-gay organizations. While I avoided explicitly discussing harm in my edit, I noted that many jurisdictions ban the practice for minors, by medical professionals, or even outright. This indicates a broad societal discomfort with such practices in Western countries today. And it’s not that gay groups had a psychological complex around insufficient “Pride™” or misunderstood the philosophy as a “gay cure.” Their opposition stems from legitimate concerns, yet the current section implies otherwise. Here’s another example of problematic framing: "Some gay advocacy groups and gay activists presented Aesthetic Realism as “anti-gay”, accusing the philosophy of offering a “gay cure” and expressing skepticism that homosexuality could or should change. Persons within the gay pride movement associated the desire of a man to change from homosexuality with a lack of pride in a gay identity, and Aesthetic Realism as biased."
Braxton7248: Re: why the [objectionable] phraseology used "accusing the philosophy of offering a ‘gay cure’” -- The objection is to the word “cure.” Aesthetic Realism always taught the matter of homosexuality was philosophic-—a way of seeing the world and oneself. It never presented it as an illness or psychological sickness.

Suggested revisions to this paragraph: The view that sexual-orientation change is ineffective and often harmful became increasingly supported by mainstream scientific, medical and psychological communities. In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association declassified homosexuality as a mental disorder.[28]

Last paragraph: In 1990, after years of increasingly heated national debate about homosexuality, the Aesthetic Realism Foundation discontinued teaching on this subject which, it said, “is definitely not fundamental to Aesthetic Realism,” and affirmed that it “always has been for full, completely equal civil rights for everyone” including “the right to marry a person of whatever gender one chooses.”[29] 

Braxton7248 (talk) 23:33, 9 November 2024 (UTC)Reply
  1. ^ John Lewis: "Gays Who Have Gone Straight," NY Daily News, March 15, 1981. "The late Sheldon Kranz, a GI in World War II, was the first man to make the change in 1946. Kranz later married Anne Fielding and the couple remained married for 24 years until his death recently."
  2. ^ Sheldon Kranz to interviewer Jonathan Black; Free Time show, WNET, Channel 13, 19 February 1971. Interview reprinted in The H Persuasion, Sheldon Kranz, editor (New York: Definition Press, 1971). "Aesthetic Realism is the first body of knowledge which presents a way of seeing the world that incidentally affects one in terms of the way one sees women…so that one can be permanently heterosexual." Sheldon Kranz to interviewer Jonathan Black: "One of the things that happened in terms of my wife is that every time I had sex I have never had that ghastly feeling afterwards. As a matter of fact, it never ceases to be a source of wonder to me that one could have sex and really feel good afterwards."
  3. ^ "The Homosexual Story" by Eli Siegel, The Right of Aesthetic Realism to Be Known, Issue #316, April 25, 1979. "Aesthetic Realism was not chiefly interested, as I said, in talking to homosexual people, although it felt it could be of great use. [T]he principal purpose of Aesthetic Realism in talking to a homosexual person [was] to have him see the world differently and therefore himself differently; or, if one wishes, to have him see himself differently and therefore the world differently."
  4. ^ Sheldon Kranz to interviewer Jonathan Black, Free Time show, WNET, New York: 19 February 1971. Interview reprinted in The H Persuasion, Sheldon Kranz, editor,(New York: Definition Press, 1971), "Aesthetic Realism is the first body of knowledge which presents a way of seeing the world that incidentally affects one in terms of the way one sees women…so that one can be permanently heterosexual."
  5. ^ Elmhurst Press (Elmhurst, Illinois), "Aesthetic Realism Ends Homosexuality," August 17, 1983, "Five formerly homosexual men…appeared with David [Susskind] and told how they had changed from homosexuality to heterosexuality with the help of a program of Aesthetic Realism developed by Eli Siegel…It is not just for homosexuals but everyone who may feel he or she would like to make some changes."
  6. ^ "Aesthetic Realism and Homosexuality" by Kay Longcope, The Boston Globe, April 18, 1982. "The cornerstone of Aesthetic Realism is four-fold: 'Every person is always trying to put together opposites in himself. Every person, in order to respect himself, has to see the world as beautiful, or good, or acceptable. There is a disposition in every person to think he will be for himself by making less of the outside world."
  7. ^ Deborah A. Staub in Contemporary Authors. "The first statement of Aesthetic Realism maintains that 'every person is always trying to put together opposites in himself.' Though Siegel never intended this principle to become identified with any particular form of self-conflict, it long ago became linked to his position on what he termed the 'H Persuasion'--homosexuality. Because he believed homosexuality arises from contempt for the world that manifests itself as contempt for women, the philosopher reasoned that people could be 'changed from homosexuality' if they were taught to 'like the world on an honest basis.' Since 1946, over 100 men and women say they have 'changed from homosexuality' after attending special question-and-answer consultation sessions conducted by teachers of Aesthetic Realism."
  8. ^ Sheldon Kranz to interviewer Jonathan Black, Free Time, show, WNET, New York: 19 February 1971. Interview reprinted in The H Persuasion, Sheldon Kranz, editor (New York: Definition Press, 1971): "It's a very philosophic matter, but maybe I can explain it as simply as possible. I think that the desire of every person, just as person, is to be able to welcome and take to himself as much of the variety and diversity and difference of the world as possible….A person becomes educated…to get more and more of the diversity of the world to him. I feel that in homosexuality there is such a limiting of that…such a denying of difference, that I feel there is something very deep in the self of a person that says, 'This is not what I want.' Now, as I said…if people…really can say, 'I like myself this way, really,' –it's not for me to say one way or the other."
  9. ^ The H Persuasion, Sheldon Kranz, editor (New York: Definition Press, 1971), p. xvii. "Since 1965 there has been a more or less continuous effort to have some coverage of the documented changes from homosexuality through the study of Aesthetic Realism."
  10. ^ Free Time show, WNET, Channel 13, New York, aired 19 February 1971
  11. ^ The David Susskind Show WNEW-TV, Channel 5, aired 4 April 1971, New York.
  12. ^ The H Persuasion, Sheldon Kranz, editor (New York: Definition Press, 1971)
  13. ^ The David Susskind Show WNEW-TV, Channel 5, aired 8 May 1983, New York.
  14. ^ Ellen Reiss, editor, The Aesthetic Realism of Eli Siegel and the Change from Homosexuality (New York: Definition Press, 1986)
  15. ^ The New York Times, Book Review, page BR64, September 12, 1971
  16. ^ Robin Green: "FYI Put those fears away, all citizens-to-be" The Globe and Mail, April 28, 1978, p.8 "Pity the lot of the Aesthetic Realists... who are mad at The New York Times because the Times, they claim, refuses to print a story that 123 homosexuals have changed (to heterosexuality) through Aesthetic Realism."
  17. ^ "Some News that's Unfit to Print," New York Magazine, 17 April 1978, p.8: "Though The New York Times does a fine job of covering Milanese fashions…it has somehow managed to overlook the Aesthetic Realism story. The Aesthetic Realists do not like this, and they are doing something about it….[They] have disrupted the Times city desk with more than 65 calls a day from people demanding that the story be run….What is more, the Aesthetic Realists have gone into the city streets, holding vigils in front of publisher Punch Sulzberger's home and those of other top Times officials."
  18. ^ Nat Hentoff, "Minority protesters trash First Amendment," St. Petersburg Times, Wednesday, May 5, 1993, p. 11A. "For many years in New York's Greenwich Village, decorously dressed followers of poet and guru Eli Siegel ("Hot Afternoons Have Been in Montana") used to wear buttons proclaiming themselves 'Victims of the Press.'"
  19. ^ Barbara Fischkin, Muddy Cup: a Dominican Family Comes of Age in a New America, (NY: Scribner) ISBN 0-684-80704-1, pages 231–232: "Linda Kunz wore a 'Victim of the Press' button on her lapel. On the first day of class, she wrote this on the blackboard: 'The purpose of all education is to like the world through knowing it—Eli Siegel.' And then this question: 'Can grammar, which is the structure of language, tell us anything about the structure of the world—including ourselves?'"
  20. ^ Bayer, Ronald (1987) Homosexuality and American Psychiatry: The Politics of Diagnosis. Princeton: Princeton University Press, p. 3, p.158, pp. 127–8. ISBN 0-691-02837-0.
  21. ^ Advertisement, "We Have Changed from Homosexuality" March 18, 1978, The New York Times, The Washington Post, Los Angeles Times
  22. ^ Allen Roskoff, "Gay Activist Allen Roskoff Lets It All Out", Queerty, "…they were telling the gay men that it was unnatural to be homosexual. Only opposites could attract in art and in life. The whole philosophy was about opposites, and of course that meant that homosexuality was wrong. I guess they matched up or convinced men. Whenever I saw a woman with a button, I would say, 'What's the matter, you can't find a straight man?' I detested these people. I mean, they were the ex-gay people."
  23. ^ Obituary of Kay Longcope, The Boston Globe, April 8, 2007. "Generally regarded as the first openly gay reporter on the newspaper's staff…. Ms. Longcope, who spent 22 years at the Globe and then founded a statewide gay and lesbian newsweekly in her home state of Texas, died of pancreatic cancer March 28 in Hospice Austin's Christopher House."
  24. ^ Kay Longcope: "Aesthetic Realism and Homosexuality," The Boston Globe, April 18, 1982. "The assertion of change based on Aesthetic Realism is especially startling to professionals in the psychotherapeutic field after a decade of rethinking homosexuality—a process triggered by the Gay Liberation Movement."
  25. ^ Robert L. Kierstead, Ombudsman, "Globe article on 'Aesthetic Realism' and gays prompts complaints," The Boston Globe, 24 May 1982. "On May 13, an estimated 250 people rallied on the Boston Common…in the case of The Boston Globe and the Aesthetic Realism Foundation in New York City….The Globe, once it decided to do the article…also assumed an obligation to spare no effort in thoroughly researching and investigating an organization which espouses a philosophy which is both complex and controversial. [Assistant Living Editor Ed Siegel] and writer Longcope believed that under the circumstances involved the story was fair….The ombudsman disagrees. The story, as published, contains a preponderance of material based on interviews with representatives of the gay community who, for the most part, are not un-biased in their views of Aesthetic Realism….The ombudsman believes the article, not intended as an exposé, contained a negative tone and strong negative words without attribution. It also contained inaccuracies."
  26. ^ Anti-Gay Cult Pulls Fast One" by Bill Schoell, The New York Blade April 25, 2008. "Unfortunately, Siegel and his followers believed that homosexuality was an illness 'caused' by self-contempt….In the 70s AR…heavily promoted the myth that they could convert people from gay to straight….New York's Gay Activist Alliance responded by infiltrating [or "zapping"] their meetings at their Greene Street headquarters and passing out pro-gay literature."
  27. ^ John Lewis: "Gays Who Have Gone Straight" NY Daily News, March 15, 1981. "Ellen Reiss a teacher at the foundation said: 'What we offer is a means to have people see themselves and the world as they truly are. We are not interested in grabbing people off the street and saying, "Change." If a person is gay and likes himself and the world and wants to stay that way, fine. But if a person wants to change we offer them a scientific logical approach.'"
  28. ^ Bayer, Ronald (1987) Homosexuality and American Psychiatry: The Politics of Diagnosis. Princeton: Princeton University Press, p. 3, p.158, pp. 127–8. ISBN 0-691-02837-0.
  29. ^ https://aestheticrealism.org/a-note-on-aesthetic-realism-and-homosexuality.
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