Talk:African Americans/Archive 27

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“But not Excusively” in lead Not Needed

But not exclusively not needed in lead. It not only looks tacky but it is also stated in the second paragraph that some Black immigrants come to be called AA due to assimilation. Furthermore, it was already concluded that the Black immigrant statement would be placed in the 2nd paragraph. Now someone is coming to state what is clear in the 2nd paragraph back in the first. ??????

The but not exclusively statement in the lead should be taken out.

We have had this discussion for a long time. African American is its own ethnicity and ppl assimilate to it if they are immigrants into the country. Citation: https://ipr.osu.edu/becoming-black-african-immigrant-integration-united-states

“Immigrants from Sub-Saharan Africa constitute the fastest growing group of immigrants in the United States today, yet we know less about their processes of assimilation and integration than other groups of immigrants. Research on black immigrants from the Caribbean suggests that the immigration experience of African immigrants will look quite different from many previous groups of immigrants, largely because assimilation for black immigrants risks exposure to the many forms of discrimination and inequalities faced by native-born black Americans.“

“African- Americans have rightly laid claim to a unique identity” Smithsonian Scholar (see previous thread)

Also see first paragraph at this link: https://scholarworks.umass.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1010&context=cfssr_publishedwork

Even genetics can point it out: “Our results also indicate that the genetic architecture of African Americans is distinct from that of Africans” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2812948/

Ethnicity points it out by the whole fact it is an ETHNIC GROUP: “Ethnicity is more than skin color or physical characteristics, more than language, song, and dance. It is the embodiment of values, institutions, and patterns of behavior, a composite whole representing a people’s historical experience, aspirations, and world view. Deprive a people of their ethnicity, their culture, and you deprive them of their sense of direction or purpose.”

The government and social studies has even noted how Black immigrants can HIGHLIGHT their own ethnicities to get ahead in some cases, meaning that Black immigrants do in fact have their OWN ETHNICITIES. “Several authors suggest that black immigrants’ ethnicity gives them an advantage over U.S.-born blacks in dealings with whites (Bashi Bobb and Clarke 2001; Foner 1985; Waters 1994). If this holds true, black immigrants may improve their residential outcomes by highlighting their ethnicity to distinguish themselves”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8713952/

Also see this link on assimilation: https://sociology.princeton.edu/events/black-immigrants-use-african-american-strategy-mobility-through-higher-education

WayMaQueen (talk) 14:14, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

@WayMaQueen: A WP:BLUDGEON is not the best instrument for using in discussions with your fellow editors. Rsk6400 (talk) 15:46, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Wasn’t trying to. You would always send me here constantly whenever I tried to utilize another way and requested I put up citations and links. That’s the only reason I did so. No issues with anyone or any discussions as some are necessary, which is why Talk is utilized as discussion. WayMaQueen (talk) 17:32, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

• We now have similar sentences back-to-back:

  "The term "African American" generally denotes descendants of Africans enslaved in the United States.

  Most African Americans are descendants of enslaved people within the boundaries of the present United States."

  Can we merge into the second sentence with something like

  "The term "African American" generally denotes descendants of Africans enslaved in the United States, and most African Americans are such descendants."

  Could use some more wordsmithing. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 19:45, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

  I personally feel like it works good as is because the other stresses within the boundaries of present day USA and leads into the next sentence well. WayMaQueen (talk) 18:17, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Black American Music

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 August 2023 and 18 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Kananstark, Kylaalexander (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by 752Sunvoices! (talk) 21:17, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

New map

Black Americans (alone) in each US county

Following this discussion, I created this map mostly to replace File:Absenceblacks.png, but also to complement File:Black Americans by county.png. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks. M.Bitton (talk) 02:11, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

North American ?

@Freee Contributor: First: Please read WP:BRD and don't edit war. Then: Why should we call African Americans a "North American" group ? Black Canadians and Afro-Mexicans are not called "African Americans". Then: "North American ethnic group consisting of Americans" sound a bit funny, doesn't it ? Rsk6400 (talk) 12:19, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

I'm not referring to Black Canadians or Afro-Mexicans. I'm referring to the African-Americans who've settled Canada for 2 centuries setting up towns and villages in Canada. Namely, the Black Nova Scotians. If you see the Afrikaners page, you can see they're called Southern Africans because they've lived in Namibia and Botswana for 2 centuries, even though the bulk of their history in Southern Africa has only been in South Africa. Freee Contributor (talk) 12:22, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Would you prefer "North American ethnic group whose ancestors primarily date back to the Colonial United States as slaves or freemen"? Freee Contributor (talk) 12:23, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

No, I think the lead sentence is less confusing as it is now. Rsk6400 (talk) 12:25, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

But African-Americans are a North American ethnic group. Freee Contributor (talk) 12:26, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

There are African Americans in many places. More than 99% are in the United States. It's fine to refer mainly to the vast majority, and mention the few exceptions in some lower-profile places. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 13:23, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

But there have been African-Americans in Canada for centuries. If you look at the Afrikaners page, you can see the vast majority live in South Africa but because they've also lived in Namibia and Botswana for 1-2 centuries, they're called Southern African. Freee Contributor (talk) 14:30, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

For how long have African Americans been living in Sierra Leone or Liberia ? According to African Americans in France, their presences in France started in the 1800s. Rsk6400 (talk) 16:41, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes but the ethnic group in question came to be in North America Freee Contributor (talk) 17:30, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

I'm not convinced by your arguments. Rsk6400 (talk) 18:41, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

The fact remains that African-Americans are a North American ethnic group Freee Contributor (talk) 18:57, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Featured picture scheduled for POTD

Hello! This is to let editors know that File:Sgt. Samuel Smith, African American soldier in Union uniform with wife and two daughters.jpg, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for February 1, 2025. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2025-02-01. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you!  — Amakuru (talk) 12:11, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

African Americans, also known as Afro-Americans or Black Americans, are an ethnic group consisting of Americans with partial or total ancestry from any of the Black racial groups of Africa. African Americans constitute the third largest racial or ethnic group in the U.S. after White Americans and Hispanic and Latino Americans. Most African Americans are descendants of enslaved people, having West African and coastal Central African ancestry, with varying amounts of Western European and Native American ancestry. This ambrotype depicts African American Union soldier Sgt. Samuel Smith, of the 119th United States Colored Troops, with his family in c. 1863–65.

Ambrotype credit: unattributed photographer

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Terminology / General — Frequency of Use prior to 1980

The term African American, popularized by Jesse Jackson in the 1980s, although it was in regular use as far back for the ethnic group in the 18th and 19th centuries, for example, in post-emancipation holidays and conferences,

We could improve the WP:WEIGHT of the references to "african american" use prior to 1980. There are practically zero references in books prior to 1980

We have some good citations here including the 1800s newspaper, but in all there might be half a dozen references recorded prior to Jessee Jackson inventing the term.

African american was not in regular use. Negro was in regular use, and "african american" was an extremely rare exception until 1980.

Tonymetz 💬 21:24, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

"regular use" was not supported by the text, and I've adjusted the article text accordingly. Good catch. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 23:59, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Black American over African American

I have been reading that "Black American" is taking precedence as the newest, best preferred term over "African American." Is either acceptable in most articles right now? Iljhgtn (talk) 18:56, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Also, is it appropriate to capitalize the "B" in "Black Americans" or is it "black Americans"? Iljhgtn (talk) 20:51, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

It is correct to capitalize the B in Blacks, as in L for Latinos and A for Asians. However is its NOT correct to do the same for w in whites. Associated Press and New York Times have determined that "white doesn’t represent a shared culture and history in the way Black does." (Personally I see this as regressive in implying all Black cultures are similar, when in reality they are quite varied.) The underlying message however is that whites are the only racial group not befitting a capital letter.

https://apnews.com/article/entertainment-cultures-race-and-ethnicity-us-news-ap-top-news-7e36c00c5af0436abc09e051261fff1f 107.192.19.201 (talk) 21:03, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

We follow MOS:RACECAPS. It's "Black and White" or "black and white". Rsk6400 (talk) 09:07, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

The most recent move discussion happened last march (link), and it ended in consensus against such a move. I'd recommend researching whether things have changed when it comes to RS usage of the terms. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 13:34, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

That was not a very thoroughly responded to RfC. Would be logical to have another. Iljhgtn (talk) 18:31, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

At the very least we can say that Black American should be prioritized over Afro-American right? Google searching "Afro Americans"/"Afro-Americans" gives 1.5 million results while "Black Americans" gives around 24.6 million. (Both are searched with quotation marks included) Gabecube45 (talk) 20:02, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Support for "Black American" as the recommended preferred usage instead of "Afro", "Afro-" or "African American". Black American is the best, most neutral, and widely used term. Iljhgtn (talk) 15:40, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose: On Google books, "Black African" brings up 2,080,000 results [1], whilst "African American" brings up 23,100,000 results [2].I don't know of anyone who uses the old fashioned term "Afro American". To use it as an example is most inappropriate.Tamsier (talk) 16:12, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

African American flag in lead infobox

Hello @Rsk6400,

You reverted my edit which placed the Black American Heritage Flag in the lead infobox, saying that the flag is not universally accepted. Would you have any sources to back up your claim?

I can't find anything saying the flag is universally accepted as well, though I did get flooded with a lot of results on Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/discover/black-american-heritage-flag

There have also been at least two instances, that made the news, where the flag was incorporated into fashion: https://girlsunited.essence.com/article/saweetie-met-gala-filipino-black-culture/ and https://www.milwaukeemag.com/this-milwaukee-native-won-the-united-states-of-america-ms-pageant/ Evaporation123 (talk) 03:10, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

We need sources for claims, not for the absence of claims. That's why I think to add the flag, you'd need good sources that positively say that the Black American Heritage Flag is universally accepted as representing the group of African Americans. Tiktok videos or fashion articles are not considered reliable sources. You can find more about reliable sources at WP:RS. Rsk6400 (talk) 08:03, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

The flag was designed by an artist who self published (BookBaby) as cited in the flag's article without page number. Many of the article's refs are not reliable and from social media. Protesting here may also lead other editors to that article and nominate it for deletion as potential WP:OR.Tamsier (talk) 16:22, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 May 2024

17:05, 17 May 2024 (UTC)188.10.18.131 (talk)

Some African Americans are descendants of enslaved people within the boundaries of the present United States. While some Black immigrants or their children may also come to identify as African American, the majority of first-generation immigrants do not, preferring to identify with their nation of origin. Some African Americans are of West African and coastal Central African ancestry, with varying amounts of Western Europe.

188.10.18.131 (talk) 17:05, 17 May 2024 (UTC)<ref>https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/interactive/decennial-census-measurement-of-race-and-ethnicity-across-the-decades-1790-2020.html <ref> 188.10.18.131 (talk) 17:05, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. GrayStorm^{(talk to me|changes ive made)} 18:00, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

References

Black Americans

Some of this needs to be corrected. I understand the shift of different people coming to the Americas but I can't just identify with a people because it suits you or fits your situation. American blacks are specifically the descendants of slaves brought to America. Immigrants don't constitute American blacks. The distinction needs to be made. Userace1117 (talk) 07:30, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree that there's a distinction, but the current parlance is that "African American" most often refers to descendants of U.S. slavery, but not exclusively. This is clear in all the reliable sources. There probably should be a Wiki article about the descendants of U.S. slavery specifically, but there's no agreed-upon name for that group, so the ADOS page is probably the best we can do for now. natemup (talk) 09:38, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

This should be exclusive. Maybe there should be a separate page for those of other origins. There has to be distinction to avoid confusion and preserve our distinct history. No offense but these people did not build this country. American blacks did. Userace1117 (talk) 14:18, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Obama once again

@Natemup: Please stop edit warring ! If you see that another editor disagrees, you should not simply restore your edit, but start a discussion here, see WP:BRD. Not everything that is true or sourced is also relevant, see WP:ONUS. Now, please explain why you think that Obama's parents and Kamala Harris are important enough to be mentioned in a lead section that doesn't mention giants like Douglass, King, Tubman, Jacobs, DuBois, .... I'd also like to know some good sources for your idea that only descendants of slavery are "conventional" African Americans. It sounds a bit like the idea that a person is defined by their great-great-great-grandparents. Rsk6400 (talk) 19:11, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Firstly, I don't have that idea and it isn't mentioned in my edits today. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Secondly, the lede abruptly mentioned Obama after multiple paragraphs that themselves minimized the importance of immigrants in the definition of "African American". It implied that Obama fits within that framework; he does not. I have actually added a new paragraph that actually reflects the article's content and the sources, noting that immigration is important to the identity, as seen in recent statistics and the fact that Obama (and Harris), second-generation immigrants, are the first two African Americans in the White House. natemup (talk) 19:41, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree with natemup that the lead minimizes immigrant African-Americans, but I don't think it's best resolved by including parentage details for Obama and Harris. I've moved that info to the body, where it was previously not presented at all. Something I'd love to do if I had the time: survey some high-quality sources for basic definitions of "African-American". My suspicion is that the two sources we're currently citing for "generally denotes descendants of Africans enslaved in the United States"—both of which are very high quality, if a bit dated—are cherry picked. Anecdotally, usage of the term tends to be dominated by the US Census definition, which is much more expansive. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 01:58, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

As explained, I added an entire paragraph that includes statistics about the influence of immigration on the African-American community. It concludes with the fact that the two most powerful African Americans in history are themselves second-generation immigrants. Removing this information from the lede and putting it in the body, where it already is present, doesn't really make any sense. natemup (talk) 03:00, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

The information is not present in the body, which mentions neither Obama's nor Harris's mother. The part you added about influence of immigration needs could be appended to the end of the preceding paragraph, as it slots well into the chronology. I'm not sure why you wouldn't follow BRD on this, especially since two editors have now reverted it. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 03:07, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

The relevant info is already included in the body: their Black immigrant parents, which I connected to the preceding statistics. What paragraph it is included in makes no difference to me—though making the third paragraph any longer than it already is seems imprudent.

I can remove the part about their mothers, if that's really the issue. (Note that you removed all the information from the lede about their parents, even though their paternal ancestry was certainly mentioned in the body already.) natemup (talk) 14:02, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Natemup, from your edit summary: ... presented Obama as if he were a descendant of slavery (a conventional "African American") In my opinion, that's the idea that only descendants of slavery are "conventional" African Americans. Since I don't believe in that idea (but would like to be convinced by good sources), I don't think the parents are important enough to be mentioned in the lead. Rsk6400 (talk) 15:14, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

I was referring to the description already present in the lede, which says the term "African American" mostly (or conventionally) refers to descendants of U.S. slavery and its outworkings, and that immigrants typically don't use the term for themselves. These are obviously true statements and are supported by content and sources throughout the article. How and why you specifically may not be convinced seems irrelevant. Moreover, you implied that linking the term "African American" to slavery (which the article already does, with sources) means we are defining people by their "great-great-great-grandparents". This is POV, unsupported by content or sources, and manifestly inaccurate: I'm a 32-year-old African American and my great-grandfather was enslaved. Slavery wasn't eons ago. You also say we shouldn't mention Obama's literal parent in the lede, for reasons still unclear. In your position, which seems to be original research, it seems people can't be delineated by their distant ancestors or their immediate ancestors.

Obama was originally introduced in the same lede paragraph linking the term "African American" to slavery and its outworkings, as though he fits in that framework. This made no sense. He is clearly an African American but he isn't a descendant of U.S. slavery and his Kenyan father lived in the U.S. for a total of five years. Obama (and in my addition, Harris) are thus better connected to the recent immigrant influence on the African-American community (regardless of terminology), in which 20% are descendants of immigrants or immigrants themselves. This crucial stat is in the article but wasn't even mentioned in the lede, so I added it and mentioned Obama and Harris thereafter, since their immigrant parents are a major theme of the content and sources concerning them in the article already.

Your preferred edits, which you have now restored via revert for the second time while decrying "edit warring", leave the lede somewhat incomprehensible: Obama and Harris, African Americans who uniquely belong in the lede due to their service at the pinnacle of American government, are mentioned after a statistic on immigrants but no mention is made that they are second-generation immigrants themselves. As such, I think my edits should be restored. natemup (talk) 16:44, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

There seems to be a misunderstanding: I didn't restore my "preferred edits" with my second revert, I restored Firefangledfeather's version. Also: WP:NOCONSENSUS, WP:ONUS, WP:BRD. Rsk6400 (talk) 05:44, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Are you two serious? When have Black Americans been anything but the descendants of slaves in America? Where you are born doesn't determine what you are and we are the only ones who fall for this nonsense. The only place on earth where you sign documents and become another nationality. If you're born on an airplane it doesn't make you an "airplanian" neither would people tell you so. Barack Obama is a Kenyan American, point, blank, period. Do you think he'll win an argument about reparations? This is the confusion America is causing. Do you think we'll be part the tribe of we were in Kenya for 3 generations? Hell no! We'd be an entirely different ethnic group. So-called "African-americans" (black Americans) are a distinct ethnic group and that's what we have to realize. These people do not claim us and spreading this misinformation is not helping us in the world view. In Japan they do not accept foreigners as being Japanese, you could be Chinese in Japan for 3-4 generations and the Japanese will still look at you as a china man. So-called African Americans (black Americans)are the descendants of the slaves who were brought here to the Americas, nothing else. Userace1117 (talk) 08:09, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree that Black descendants of U.S. slavery are a distinct ethnic group, but as it stands, this page is not limited to that group. How to fix that, I do not know. Maybe make a new page? There is a page for ADOS (though it's mostly about the organization/movement). natemup (talk) 09:26, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

so what happens when more white south Africans start moving to the Americas, will they be "African American" too? Maybe we should start a page for American blacks" (the ethnic group, those of slave descent in America). Userace1117 (talk) 14:14, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

You clearly restored Firefangledfeather's edits because you prefer them (and because they remove from the lede the info you previously removed from the lede), not because there was any consensus, sources, or improvement.

Notice you didn't respond to anything else I presented here. WP:ONUS is about adding new info to a page, not deciding what already-included info belongs in the lede. You have yet to provide any reason for not including certain info in the lede other than you "prefer not to mention" certain things there, per your most recent edit summary. You say we should discuss it but are not discussing anything, instead posting links to misapplied policies. It reeks of gaming the system and wikilawyering. natemup (talk) 09:35, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

We're pretty stuck. Rsk6400 and I think that details of Obama's and Harris's parentage are too much for the lead, you think otherwise. We've all presented reasons, and no one has said "prefer not to mention". When deciding what is too much detail for the lead, there are really no options other than editorial judgment, unless someone wants to do an exhaustive source survey.

No one is gaming or wikilawyering. This is a garden variety content dispute. Maybe we seek out some dispute resolution? Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 17:00, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

"prefer not to mention" is in fact a quote from RSK's edit summary on their last revert. It follows similar reverts they have made in the past, on the grounds of personal preference (though with the facade of consensus and edit-warring). This is why they titled the above talk heading "Obama again"; they don't like this content being in the article and have removed it before from the body, IIRC. That is why I brought up wikilawyering and gaming the system. The blocking of this info is entirely untethered from sources, content, consensus, or reason. Just POV and vibes.

Moreover, "too much for the lede" isn't really a reason. Too much "detail" relative to what? The lede would be too long? Their parentage doesn't matter? Immigration shouldn't be mentioned at all in relation to important individuals? Help me out here. This is a massive article with a relatively modest lede overall. Adding ~10 words is nothing and I've already explained why it makes sense given the lede as it stands. natemup (talk) 03:16, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining the quote. In Rsk's summary the "prefer not to mention" was about mentioning Harris at all, not about the thing we're discussing here. I would say the lead is overlong already, so I am eager to cut it down, not expand it. POV and vibes is just a dismissive way of referring to someone else's editorial judgment. There is too much well-sourced content about African Americans to fit it all in the lead. We have to decide somehow what to include. I think immigration should be mentioned; again, compared to my experience with good sources, I think the lead is weirdly hostile to Black immigrants.

I am not sure how to phrase my objection in a way that would make sense to you. I feel like it already makes sense, but you've proposed some explanations that are very distant from what I'm trying to say. Let's say I wanted to include ~10 words about "Lift Every Voice and Sing", 10 words about soul food, 10 words about Jehovah's Witnesses, and 10 words about using "counseling" instead of "psychotherapy". Presume you oppose one or many of those. Is there a way you could phrase your opposition that couldn't be dismissed with "POV and vibes" or "personal preference"? Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 03:36, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Firefangledfeathers, I agree with you in everything except one: I don't think that it's only up to editorial judgment whether to include the parentage of Obama / Harris in the lead. If we include that, we implicitly say that this is very important, and that can only mean one thing: Obama and Harris are not real African Americans. Modern societies are built on the assumption that you belong to a group if you identify with the group and are accepted by the group. Obama identifies as African American, and he got something like 90% of the African-American vote. Rsk6400 (talk) 16:53, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

I couldn't disagree more. I take natemup at his word that the purpose of noting the parentage is to emphasize the importance of immigrant African-Americans to the community overall. As I read natemup's proposed version, that's the main way that I read it. If we're worried about pushing the view that immigrants are not real African Americans—and I really do worry about that—there are other parts of the lead that need more attention than this proposal. Also, when we're evaluating language based on how the reader will interpret it, we're engaging our editorial judgment! Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 17:19, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

In short, there are many reasons why Obama and Harris having immigrant Black parents is very important. That's why the article already mentions their parentage in the body multiple times. That's why I belongs in the lede. In my opinion, it's a neutral fact worth highlighting.

And again, not mentioning it—in a paragraph immediately following descriptions of the importance of U.S. slavery to the term "African American"—gives a false impression about Obama and Harris. Specifying their parentage does not make them less African American, but makes their identity more clear, highlighting the diversity that the community now comprises. (That diversity is a crucial evolution of the group, after all, and was previously left out the lede altogether.)

But since the sources linking the term "African American" to slavery are now in question anyway, it seems prudent to figure out what the term really does refer to most often in (modern?) reliable sources. natemup (talk) 18:59, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 July 2024

Can you change this sentence: "African Americans, also known as Black Americans or Afro-Americans, are an ethnic group consisting of Americans with partial or total ancestry from any of the Black racial groups of Africa."

To this:

"African Americans, also known as Black Americans or Afro-Americans, are an ethnic group consisting of Americans who descend from the formerly enslaved Africans of the United States."

The issue with the prior statement is that it is not specific enough and it is causing erasure. Caribbean, Latin American and Continental African immigrants all fall under the initial statement and they are not members of our ethnic group. You can not immigrate into an ethnic group. I can not provide a source because our ethnic group is not formerly defined. There are only articles that debate who belong to our ethnic group, or there are articles (and official statistics) who lump us in with Caribbean, Latin American and African peoples. We Black Americans know who we are and who our people are. Anyone who descends from the freed enslaved of 1865 are Afro / Black Americans. This change is imperative for us to begin defining who we are because many come to Wikipedia as the first line of research and we need this page to be as accurate as possible.

If you need me to prove that I am Black American I would be more than happy to if it means our ethnic group can gain more specificity. Asahae (talk) 18:15, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. - FlightTime (open channel) 18:20, 9 July 2024 (UTC)