Talk:Age of consent/Archive 5

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The statement in parentheses after sentence about the colloquial use of the term statutory rape (at the end of the lead section) needs sourcing and rewording for it top stay in the article.

In the lead section, there is a sentence at the end that read "...what is popularly called statutory rape. (which is considered equivalent to rape, both in severity and sentencing)". The part in parentheses has no reliable source supporting it and makes controversial claims and factually incorrect claims so I removed it and put it on the talk page for discussing. If someone really feels that sentence/statement (in some form) needs to be in the article here are the problems with it that need to be addressed:

• The phrase "which is considered equivalent to rape" does not state who is considers this to be so. Are we saying that the law/state considers considers statutory rape to equivalent to (forced) rape or are we talking about public opinion, or what experts (psychologists, mental health experts, researchers, etc.) believe or all three. We need to clarify that just who/what believe it’s equivalent and source/cite it)?
• If where talking about the law/state, then do we mean the state views it severe a crime as forced rape, does that also include that they consider it as equally harmful (physically or psychologically)? Keep in mind the “Statutory rape” is a mostly colloquial term (apart from a few jurisdictions) and that due to variations in the age of consent between countries or states, acts considered a form of rape in one jurisdiction may not be considered so in another, so be clear that we are talking about what the law in a particular jurisdiction considers to be a form of rape for those under it jurisdiction.
• If we are talking about public opinion then we should include a cite that points to specific polls or studies that back this up, but we should also be clear as who was being polled or questioned in the studies so as not to imply a worldwide viewpoint when it’s was simply a U.S. view, for example.
• If where talking psychologists, mental health experts, researchers, etc., this needs a source that supports that a majority or consensus of them view it as equally harmful (psychologically or physically harmful as forced rape, assuming that is what is meant by “equivalent”, in this specific context.).
• For each group we intend to assert “views statutory rape equivalent to (forced) rape”, needs to be specified and sourced.
• With regard to “both in severity…”, does that mean legally repercussions or in terms of physical/psychological harm or both? Again, that needs to be cited/sourced, and clarified..
• The “and sentencing” part is not necessarily true, at least not across all U.S. States or across countries, worldwide. Many jurisdiction have much harsher maximum penalties for forced rape as apposed to the maximum penalty for statutory rape. While in the U.S. statutory rape is generally a felony like forced rape, it is not generally same degree of sentencing severity. It would be better and more accurate to that statutory rape can incur severe penalties like forced rape without stating they penalties are equivalent. Please note here that I am using the term "statutory rape" here as commonly used, to refer to illegal sex between an adult and a sexually developed teenager under the age of consent (in one's jurisdiction) and as no one uses that term to refer child rape/child molestation involving prepubescent/early pubescent children, which is indeed typically treated, sentencing-wise, as severally as forced rape if not worse.

--Notcharliechaplin (talk) 22:26, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Notcharliechaplin, without reading all of your above comment, I will state that, regarding this, rape is not solely defined by force, and that sentence stated nothing about "forced." And, yes, the definition of rape includes statutory rape (although the term statutory rape is usually not used in legal statutes). Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 13:07, 7 August 2018 (UTC) Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 13:10, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Table

What is the purpose of having the table in the article, when we already have the map? It doesn't bring anything to the article, and it takes a lot of space. This was already discussed above, and the consensus was to remove it. It was removed, but later it was added again. The table should be removed. 2A02:2F01:504F:FFFF:0:0:BC1B:4574 (talk) 15:15, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

I removed the table. It was unnecessary, redundant, and sourced to unreliable source. 2A02:2F01:52FF:FFFF:0:0:6465:50E4 (talk) 18:28, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

File:Age of Consent - Global.svg

I think the file needs correction since it contains wrong information. Age of consent in South Korea is set to 13 by the Aritcle 305 of the Criminal law. 221.148.113.107 (talk) 14:41, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

No Need for Consent

The tables listing "age of consent" by continent name fourteen countries (Afghanistan, Iran, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Maldives, Oman, Pakistan, Gaza/Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, United Arab Emirates and Yemen) where people having sexual intercourse must be married. Yet these are also states which, according to the marital rape pages, do not (except dubiously, in the case of the Sudan) treat rape of a woman by her husband as a crime. Both child marriage and forced marriage are widespread, whatever the laws may say, and rape outside marriage leads to punishment of the victim, not the perpetrator, so compulsion takes the place of consent: in fact these Sharia jurisdictions have no "age of consent" at all. NRPanikker (talk) 21:09, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Jennifer A. Drobac material

OnBeyondZebrax, this is WP:Undue. Yes, I know that you've been adding commentary from random people to the Sexual consent article, but I haven't bothered to tackle any of that since you created that article and you didn't address anything I stated at Talk:Sexual consent. But here at the Age of consent article and related articles? I have to address it. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 03:15, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Correction: You did address my commentary about WP:Quotefarm and WP:Copyright concerns at Talk:Sexual consent. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 03:17, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Age of consent by location

in particular. Zezen (talk) 03:52, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Mangled headings on mobile

This is the first WP article that does not display the headings properly on mobile Chrome.

This first one:

Ha. This very post does not display properly either! A repaste:

"==Age of consent by location== in particular." Zezen (talk) 03:53, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Age of Consent Vatican City

I refer to this talk page discussion. The discussion may cause the map to be retouched so please share your thoughts.Manabimasu (talk) 16:20, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Most countries 14 to 18

The Wisest Expert, I ask that per WP:BRD you discuss your proposed changes here. As the sentence says, most places do set it at 14 to 18. Only Indonesia is 19 as far as I can tell. There are a number of exceptions, but it doesn't make sense to single any of them out. -Crossroads- (talk) 04:17, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

Agree with Crossroads that "19" is WP:Undue. It is not typical like age 18 is. It can't really be called "most common." Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 23:28, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

Reverted updated map

@Manabimasu: You reverted the updated map I added from List of countries by age of consent saying it's bc of WP:IUP. What exactly in WP:IUP precludes us from using template graphs created in WP itself?? — Guarapiranga (talk) 21:33, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

@Guarapiranga: Look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_use_policy#User-created_images . Sorry for the inconvenience. You can add back your map, but keep the previous map. Start a discussion on which map is better to use. In other words, if you want to delete a map, generate consensus.Manabimasu (talk) 21:46, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

It's an upgrade (to a map everyone can edit in the wiki editor) and an update (to more current and corrected data), Manabimasu, not a deletion. If you had a problem with it, you should raise it here, not simply jump the gun into revertionism.

Now, do you have a problem with it or can I add it back in without this becoming an edit war for no good reason? — Guarapiranga (talk) 22:55, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Gratian and Middle Ages suspect

We need SECONDARY for:

Gratian: ... around twelve for girls and around fourteen for boys but acknowledged consent to be meaningful if both children were older than seven years of age.[4] There were authorities that said that such consent for entering marriage could take place earlier. 

Who, where, how often, DUE etc. Zezen (talk) 09:19, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

No Age of consent in France

Hey, by this german news-article there is no age of consent in france! https://www.nachrichten.at/nachrichten/weltspiegel/Weiter-kein-Schutzalter-fuer-Sex-mit-Minderjaehrigen;art17,2898204 -- Enomine (talk) 18:02, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Please see the section specific to France. This article is on the general concept. Also, I cannot verify if the source is reliable as it is not in English and the source is unfamiliar. I will look into this further.Legitimus (talk) 21:27, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Relevant: French_petition_against_age_of_consent_laws

2600:1702:1740:2CA0:1D43:8A98:EC54:CFE5 (talk) 17:45, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Also, strictly speaking it's an Austrian news article. (Sorry, just had to mention it) --Yhdwww (talk) 19:45, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

Here English

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/11/world/europe/gabriel-matzneff-pedophilia-france.html

So?

Zezen (talk) 09:20, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Reverted the removal of the map

Source for Japan https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8975673/Japanese-students-launch-petition-countrys-age-contest-raised-13-16.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.189.27.103 (talk) 07:45, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Virginia explains it all

Sadly, the Virginia Department of Health explains the age of consent, but not so well.

Here are two sources:

• Statutory Rape, ca. 2015
• Statutory Rape, current

Both versions of the Virginia statutory rape page have very similar wording, but the old version gives the impression that it's concerned about trying to be helpful rather than merely citing legal facts. But in both cases, the actual verbiage is poorly suited to the intended audience, i.e. teen-agers who can really be confused about what it actually means.

My main point is that there is an audience out there that needs this information, but (my contention being) theyt can't reasonaby be expected to grasp it in this form, and if that segment of the audience matters to us, we should seek to do a better job than Virginia has done. Fabrickator (talk) 09:49, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Map removed

The map was recently arbitrarily edited so that almost all ages in Mexico would appear as "18", without any justification. Such an unstable reversion cannot be allowed, the map is simply wrong and should be removed. 2800:150:105:144F:98E5:E65A:12E6:A812 (talk) 18:56, 20 March 2023 (UTC)