Talk:Air Conditioning (album)

Warping

The reference to 'Warping' of the picture disc has been removed. First, no reference was provided (or exists) and second, picture discs don't easily warp. Due to a plywood like construction (5 layers) they resist warping. Surface noise is the common complaint regarding (pre Han-O-Disc) picture discs. Also the picture disc release of Airconditioning was only 20,000 and so represented only a fraction of the albums total sales. Regular pressings were released at exactly the same time as the limited edition picture disc version and many fans purchased both. Also the record was NOT 'racked' with the actual record but with a cardboard dummy disc.Aimulti (talk) 04:00, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I recall when I bought my copy being disappointed that it was not a picture disc and being told by the shopkeeper to be thankful as the sound quality (probably relating to the surface noise you mention) of the picture disc was very poor. As you say, this was the problem, not warping. At the time most ordinary vinyl LPs were getting thinner and so less likely to warp than the slab-like versions of the 1960s. RGCorris (talk) 09:08, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Moving to talk

Moving the following text to talk as it is unsourced. Move back if cited.

After a few hundred the credits were edited. The very rare first pressings have credits that meet up forming a full circle and include the manager's phone number. The idea for the picture disc came from the group's manager, Mark Hanau who also designed the artwork which won the New Musical Express special award for best album art in 1971. He was later dubbed "The Father of the Picture Disc" in a Melody Maker article. The original LP was housed in a clear sleeve, prominently displaying a cardboard die cut 'dummy' of the picture disc when racked. The regular pressings and the current CD cover attempt to emulate the original design, displaying the picture disc against a beige background.

Toddst1 (talk) 13:14, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Same with this which seems like an involved person's personal opinion:

Most CD issues of this album (and others in Curved Air's catalogue) are often criticized for their flat sound; remastered editions are currently not expected in the near future. Also, the title is spelled "Air Conditioning" on CD releases (though it is still "Airconditioning" on the cover art).

Toddst1 (talk) 13:16, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

What Happens When You Blow Yourself Up

The 1971 Warner Bros release WB.8023 had "It Happened Today" and "What Happens When You Blow Yourself Up" on the A-side and "Vivaldi" on the B-side. Please quote references or sources for a version with "It Happened Today" on the A-side and "What Happens..." on the B-side before again reverting the edit. RGCorris (talk) 21:29, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Certainly. For future reference, though, singles always have exactly one song on the A-side. Always. That's what makes a record a single, rather than an EP.--Martin IIIa (talk) 13:01, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Therefore it was a maxi-single on its original release. Can you quote a reference number for a version with only one track on each side ? RGCorris (talk) 13:13, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

You might like to check the Discography (under the Music tag) on the Curved Air website, http://www.curvedair.com/Directions.htm RGCorris (talk) 13:17, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

I am not here to be your personal secretary and fetch all your references for you - especially not after you immediately reverted me when I added the first reference you asked for. If you want a reference for the version with one track on each side, get it yourself. Finding it is just a matter of a simple application of an internet search engine.--Martin IIIa (talk) 13:23, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Quite why you are so determined to revert correct information I know not. I am quoting details from the original vinyl - if necessary I could scan the label for you - which agrees with the band's official website. I have left your info and added the details of the original release. If you have genuine knowledge of a release with only two songs on it, and can quote the label release number, rather than second-hand info from a CD booklet, please provide it as an addition; and cease deleting the correct info I have added. RGCorris (talk) 14:19, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

The standard for inclusion in Wikipedia is not that it is "correct", but that it is verifiable(see Wikipedia: Verifiability). The Curved Air official website, All Music Guide, and liner notes for numerous Curved Air albums all verify that "What Happens When You Blow Yourself Up" was a b-side. (And no, I did not get the CD booklet info second-hand; I own a copy of the CD.) The source you've cited, the official Curved Air website, actually says the opposite of what you claim, and label scans are not considered a reliable source by Wikipedia. I'm not going to undo your edit now, but I recommend that you revert it yourself as a sign of good faith. Your consistently aggressive behavior during this dispute, and your repeatedly assuming bad faith, do not help me or other editors trust you or sympathize with your position. Insisting on adding a claim to the article with a reference that refutes that very claim will only make things worse.

And before doing any further editing on Wikipedia, I highly recommend reading both the articles I've linked above, and WP: Civility. It'll save you a lot of trouble in the future.--Martin IIIa (talk) 19:31, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

The entry on the official Curved Air website list of singles reads "It Happened Today (edited)/Vivaldi/What Happens When You Blow Yourself Up (Warner Brothers WB 8023) Released 1971; with Picture sleeves in Germany and the Netherlands" which confirms the maxi-single release in the UK and Europe, although not the position of the tracks on the sides of the vinyl. Having checked further it appears that the USA and Canadian release was different, and I have therefore updated the article to give details of both releases, with their WB catalogue numbers. Hopefully this ends the controversy. I shall leave it to others to consider who is guilty of being uncivil and aggressive in this dispute. RGCorris (talk) 10:29, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

(Note: Throughout this post I will refer to RGCorris in the third person; this is not to slight him, but to reflect the fact that this isn't a direct response to any of his above posts.) For anyone who is "just tuning in", at this point I took this dispute to WP: Dispute resolution noticeboard. After some discussion there with a moderator, the issue has been clarified to a larger extent, and I've hit on a compromise solution, which I think is the ideal here since RGCorris seems unwilling to change his position. I stated on the noticeboard that "...I don't see reason to list every variation of the singles it appears on. I've never seen that much discographic detail on any Wikipedia article, even for albums of highest notability." However, upon reflection I realized that this is not completely true. I have seen a similar level in detail on a few articles; what threw me is that I've seen it not as prose under "Track listing", but a listing under a separate section, "Singles". An example of this is Toto IV.

So here is my proposed compromise: Under "Track listing", replace the current details on "What Happens When You Blow Yourself Up" with "One other song was recorded and released only on singles:", followed by the track details for "What Happpens". Then, in a new section "Singles", we put the three singles whose existence is established plus the one RGCorris says he has a copy of, like so:

• "It Happened Today" b/w "Vivaldi" / "What Happens When You Blow Yourself Up" (UK release)
• "It Happened Today" b/w "What Happens When You Blow Yourself Up" (North American release)
• "It Happened Today" / "What Happens When You Blow Yourself Up" b/w "Vivaldi" (UK maxi-single)
• "It Happened Today" b/w "It Happened Today" (promo issue)

The references should be dispensed with, I think, since the liner notes I cited only confirm the existence of the first single, and the website, besides not confirming the existence of RGCorris's single, isn't really a citable source, as the moderator pointed out. Discographic listings of this sort tend to go unreferenced anyway, and if references are demanded we can always add them back in later. Hopefully RGCorris will find this an acceptable solution.--Martin IIIa (talk) 13:25, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Since six days have now passed with no reply from RGCorris, I'm going to go ahead and implement the proposed change, with one difference. Since I don't feel comfortable adding it myself(seeing as I still don't have sufficient reason to think it exists), I'll be omitting the maxi-single RGCorris refers to. If RGCorris chooses to add it to the singles listing himself, of course, I will make no objection.--Martin IIIa (talk) 13:16, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

The track lengths on the maxi-single issued in the UK as WB8023 are as follows : It Happened Today 3:45; What Happens WYBYU 3:34; Vivaldi 7:26. As is mentioned on the band's web-page, IHT is edited from the album version; however Vivaldi is the full-length version. Is it really likely that a 45 rpm issue has 3:45 of music on one side and 11:00 on the other ? The maxi-single has 7:19 on side A (IHT & WHWYBYU) and 7:26 on side B (Vivaldi). There is still no evidence of the existence of a three-track single release in the UK with WHWYBYU and Vivaldi on the same B-side. RGCorris (talk) 15:48, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, I would be tempted not to view this situation as a need to find a compromise between both of your views - I think a much more reasonable and commonsense idea would just be to find out what actually got released and when. Once we find out what actually got released, there will simply be nothing to argue about any more. Have either of you considered getting in touch with the band themselves? We can't use any personal communication as a source for the article, but we certainly can use it to inform our debate here. — Mr. Stradivarius ^♫ 04:25, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

To answer your question, RG, from what I've seen it isn't likely that a 45 RPM issue has more than 7 minutes on either side, and especially unlikely that the label would cross the 7 minute mark by adding a second track to the side. My assumption has always been that an edited version of "Vivaldi" was used, since the track is insanely conducive to editing; it even has actual silent pauses. Editing it to about 2:30 seems the natural thing to do when putting it on a single. In any case, as I already mentioned, the version with Vivaldi and WHWYBYU on the b-side is listed on the Curved Air website and is the one version of the single mentioned in The Tapesty of Delights and the liner notes from the mid-90s Repertoire reissues. So regardless of the logistics of it, the record definitely exists.

As to consulting with the band members, Sonja Kristina at least is very responsive to fans, but I doubt any of them would know about the maxi-single if it does exist. More generally, so far as I can see there isn't any way I can prove that the maxi-single doesn't exist; it's possible that all the sources I've mentioned have simply overlooked it, and the same is true of anything or anyone else we refer to. So if I'm wrong and we find evidence that the maxi-single exists, great, but if I'm right, then we remain at an impasse no matter how much research we do.--Martin IIIa (talk) 14:07, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

I can see that the band themselves might not be overly obsessed with the nitty-gritty of releases, true. How about getting in touch with Lymark or Warner Bros.? You never know, you might get a very useful response. — Mr. Stradivarius ^♫ 02:57, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

There is a copy of the maxi-single currently on e-bay, where the seller describes it (IMHO erroneously) as an EP - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280709401710&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

If Martin Illa would fork out for a copy he could then confirm what I have been saying all along about its existence and the track lengths on it. Other copies of the same release are regularly on sale on e-bay, whereas I have never seen a version as described by Martin Illa with an edited "Vivaldi" - not, of course, proof that such a version does not exist RGCorris (talk) 16:24, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

I had looked around the Warner Bros. Records website earlier, but they don't seem to have any contact information, nor a listing of their old releases. Of course, maybe one of you guys knows better than I do how to get a hold of them.

The guy with the copy at http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CURVED-AIR-7-PROG-Rock-EP-E-P-happens-1971-/360379960426?_trksid=p4340.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DDLSL%252BSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BMRU-11233%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%252BDDSIC%26otn%3D8%26pmod%3D280709401710%252B280709401710%26po%3D%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D1568433190009387689&_qi=RTM637063 lists the release as an EP, too, though those listings at least confirm that the record you're talking about exists and is not a mis-pressing or anything of the sort. RGCorris, I think it'll help if you could explain why you think it's a single and not an EP. That's one of the main things that's confusing me.--Martin IIIa (talk) 13:24, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

I found Warner Bros Music's snail mail address and phone number on their FAQ page - they don't seem to be publicizing their email addresses though. There does appear to be an email address for fans under number 24 on the Terms and Services page, but I don't know if it's for this type of response. — Mr. Stradivarius ^♫ 14:22, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Air Conditioning (album)/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)

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Article requirements for Start-Class criteria: Y An infobox. Y A lead section giving an overview of the album. Y A track listing. Y Reference to at least primary personnel by name. Y Categorisation at least by artist and year. C-Class criteria: Y All of Start class criteria. Y A reasonably complete infobox, including cover art. N At least one section of prose (in addition to the lead section). Y A track listing containing track lengths and authors for all songs. Y A "personnel" section listing performers, including guest musicians. N A casual reader should learn something about the album. B-Class criteria: N All of B-Class criteria. Y A completed infobox, including cover art and most technical details. N A full list of personnel, including technical personnel and guest musicians. N No obvious issues with sourcing, including the use of blatantly improper sources. N No significant issues exist to hamper readability, although it may not rigorously follow WP:MOS.

Last edited at 20:48, 25 August 2013 (UTC). Substituted at 06:53, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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Picture inaccuracy

The image meant to illustrate the picture disc is actually a low quality image of the Green Label issue's sleeve. I'll be getting a picture disc soon. Would it be acceptable to photograph my copy and upload it to the page as a more accurate replacement? Alphacast (talk) 01:29, 24 February 2018 (UTC)