Talk:Al-Quds Brigades

This article as it stands relies on tangential, biased, outdated/nonsensical sources for several of its claims, and even makes claims without using any citations. ex: section 1 when describing how the topic group is funded (1st paragraph), final paragraph final sentence makes an unsourced claim about the topic groups relationship with Hamas without citing anything. The article as it is currently needs complete revision in order to be made fact-based. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:1C2:1B7F:9860:F993:E69B:D0AF:2AA0 (talk) 17:50, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

These aren't the same groups. Why merge them?

Some idiot thought they were the same because they had similar names. I'm going to remove that. --Joffeloff 21:37, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 November 2023: removing a duplicate argument in a template call

In the main infobox (titled "Infobox militant organization"), please remove the following code:

| allies='''State allies:'''
{{Bulleted|
*{{flag|Iran}}
*{{flag|Syria}}}}

since there's a duplicate argument in the template call, as there's already info for allies, both State and Non-State, immediately below. OpalYosutebito (talk) 18:47, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

 Done Thank you. Liu1126 (talk) 19:29, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Name Translation

Should Arabic: سرايا be translated as "brigades" or something else? Arabic: كتائب is the word used by every other group we translate as "brigade". Arabic Wikipedia for Arabic: سرايا links to Saray, which seems to be "castle / palace / headquarters"? (Arabic Wikipedia for Arabic: كتائب links to nothing by itself, i probably need to add or drop a suffix or prefix?) A dictionary would probably be a better idea, i'll try that later. Irtapil (talk) 14:53, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

We use the common English name, even if it's a questionable translation. كتائب is plural of كتيبة (ar:كتيبة (وحدة عسكرية)) and I was taught that it meant battalion and that the word for brigade is لواء (see Salah al-Din Brigade and Al-Khansaa Brigade, ar:لواء (وحدة عسكرية)). سرايا is the plural of سرية (ar:سرية (وحدة عسكرية))which is just a different (less common) word for a group of fighters, almaany gives: brigade, company, detachment, squadron, and its interwiki link goes to Company (military unit). In sum, it doesn't matter if it's wrong as long as it's common. --Orgullomoore (talk) 15:41, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

What do you mean by "interwiki" that link just gives me English Wikipedia? Though, wiki data seems worth a look, if i can remember how to find that?

If they are consistently referred to that in English then moving the page would be wrong, but a translation note in the intro would be good.

But how common is "Al-Quds Brigades" as an English translation? Is there any other translation used in English? In English the situation is so often referred to be the IDF simplification of "only at war with Hamas" that it comes up fairly rarely, and when it does it's often "PIJ in Gaza"?

What is their Jenin division called? same word in Arabic? same word in English?

Al Qassam call themselves "al-Qassam brigades” in English, so I wouldn't change that to battalion? Annoyingly, they meticulously explain every word EXCEPT brigade, "Definition: “Ezzedeen Al-Qassam Brigades” is the armed branch of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas). Linguistically, in Arabic "Ezz" means support, adherence, or pride, and “Deen” means religion. Al-Qassam can be translated into the breaker or divider. Historically, Ezzedeen Al-Qassam is the name of a pioneer mujahid who was martyred in 1935 near Jenin."

Oddly I wouldn't have a clue what the difference was between a brigade and a battalion is in English? (Might follow those links later if my computer manages to not be on fire any time soon).

My Homework:

• brigade vs battalion in English
• what do Al Jazeera and the BBC call the Jerusalem Brigade / Battalion in English?
• what is the Jenin unit called (in Arabic and English)?
• what do Kita2b Abu Ali call themselves in English?
• check wikidata and / or "interwiki"
• work out what that bird is…

Irtapil (talk) 16:35, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

"That bird" being نسر

… a Red "Eagle"… or vulture… and possibly the infamous Arab "Hawk"…

Irtapil (talk) 18:12, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

See MediaWiki#Interwiki links - the links that connect the articles on Wikipedia in various languages. Wikidata is here: [1]. Regarding a translation note, we are limited to information contained in reliable, published sources, and we are prohibited from synthesizing various sources, which is a form of original research, which includes drawing conclusions not stated in sources. In other words, we cannot say """According to the Arabic–English Lexicon compiled by Edward William Lane (ref), سَرِيَّةٌ, the plural of which is سَرَايَا, whence Saraya al-Quds, means "a portion of an army" "from five persons to three hundred." Since, acccording to Britannica, a company generally consists of 100-250 persons (ref) and a brigade generally of 2,000 to 8,000 (id.), "Jerusalem Companies" is the more accurate translation, and "brigades" is a mistranslation of saraya"; nevertheless, this is the translation generally given for Saraya al-Quds (also known as Al-Quds Brigades or Jerusalem Brigades).""" Do you see how we would be synthesizing the information from the Arabic-language reference and the Britannica article--neither of which are on the subject of the article (Saraya al-Quds) to draw a conclusion not stated in either source? We cannot add a translator's note because we are not the translator. Rather, we would need a published, reliable source that says all of the above in reference to this particular armed group. I highly doubt such a source exists, but have at it if you find one. --Orgullomoore (talk) 17:13, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

I don't think a dictionary or similar is that obscure? it would just be adding a literal or alternate translation. As for alternate English names, that would obviously only be if they were actually in use. See "homework" list. Irtapil (talk) 18:15, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm pretty confident it would constitute WP:SYNTH, but we can ask around for others' opinions if you'd like. I won't spoil the fun in terms of your homework assignments, other than to point out that نسر comes from a completely different triliteral root than سرية. One is from ن-س-ر (having to do with plucking) and the other is from س-ر-ى (having to do with journeying through the night). The nun is part of the root as opposed to the measure. In other words, ننسر is "we pluck/tear" almaany. --Orgullomoore (talk) 18:47, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

I found a source on the number of fighters

I don't know if its that reliable but Jordan news says around 11000 https://www.jordannews.jo/Section-20/Middle-East/The-seven-military-wings-of-the-Palestinian-Resistance-32955 Darkdeath0123 (talk) 22:35, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

why not use the AQB flag?

theres an easily accessible flag of the PIJ and AQB why isnt it used in this article? is it not better than using a photograph of their soldiers? Waterlover3 (talk) 12:25, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Image copyright, if you redraw it from photos it might be allowed, but it's fairly complex with a lot of Arabic text. FourPi (talk) 06:29, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

and where does "AQB" come from? the E in EQB is Ezzedeen not "el". FourPi (talk) 06:34, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 August 2024

In the sentence "Al-Quds Brigades [...] which is the second largest armed group in the Gaza Strip, after Hamas.", there should be a link to the Hamas page. Thus, "...in the Gaza Strip, after Hamas." should read "...in the Gaza Strip, after Hamas. Pineways (talk) 21:53, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

 Done Left guide (talk) 01:48, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Usage of Memri TV as a source

Memri is a highly unreliable source based in Israel that often mistranslates Arabic sources in order to discredit them. Blepii (talk) 19:17, 22 September 2024 (UTC)