Talk:Al-Shabaab (Mozambique)

Requested move 25 July 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not Moved - there is no consensus in favour of moving here. (non-admin closure) FOARP (talk) 14:46, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

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Al-Shabaab (Mozambique) → Islamic State – Mozambique Province – I see more results for “Islamic State – Mozambique Province” rather than “Ansar al Sunna/Al Shabaab”. ISIL propaganda also uses the name “Wilayat Muzambiq” (Mozambique Province) when referring to this group’s activities and operations. TheLibyanGuy (talk) 22:37, 25 July 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Waqar💬 16:52, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Africa, WikiProject Mozambique, WikiProject Military history/Post-Cold War task force, and WikiProject Military history have been notified of this discussion. RodRabelo7 (talk) 01:39, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

• Comment/Alternative From the lead, the article states: Al-Shabaab ... is an Islamist militant group active ... Mozambique. There is a hat-note disamgiguation for Al-Shabaab (Somali militant group) that directs to Al-Shabaab (militant group), Al-Shabaab al-Mumineen is a redirect to the Houthi movement based in Yemen. I am not seeing in the article, content that would support being named Islamic State – Mozambique Province, Islamic State Mozambique Province or, "Wilayat Muzambiq" or "Mozambique Province" - ie the present article is not supporting such a name change. However, Al-Shabaab (Somali militant group) as the hat-note would suggest Al-Shabaab (Mozambican militant group). It also raises whether either of these two are sufficiently well know as to be considered the primary target for Al-Shabaab - ie a change of name for both articles. Both are relatively obscure in my view. I don't think that Al-Shabaab (Mozambique) is a particularly adequate name. It suggests somewhere in Mozambique rather than something in/from Mozambique. At the very least it should use the demonym - ie Al-Shabaab (Mozambican). Cinderella157 (talk) 01:38, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose - As the article itself explains, the Mozambican Al-Shabaab was (at least initially) not the same as the IS Mozambique Province. Even today it remains unclear whether all Islamist rebels have become loyal to IS. Instead of moving this article, a new article for the Mozambique Province should be created. Applodion (talk) 07:46, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

  So, you’re basically saying that due to the distinct history, it can be separated? But considering that they were both under the ISCAP banner, I see no reason why they should be considered separate entities. TheLibyanGuy (talk) 00:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

That's the issue, they are not "both under the ICAP banner". Al-Shabaab emerged as a Mozambican group; later, some of its forces declared loyalty to IS. IS then assigned its Mozambican IS supporters to IS-CAP. However, reports indicate that several al-Shabaab groups continued to operate outside of IS / IS-CAP, at least for some time. Later, IS then split IS-CAP into two factions, one keeping the "IS-CAP" label, while the other was declared "Mozambique Province". This does not mean all al-Shabaab factions automatically joined "Mozambique Province". Applodion (talk) 15:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Nothing points to any other Al-Shabaab faction being independent, all of the attacks carried out in the last few years have been claimed by IS, and in regards to IS-MP being previously part of IS-CAP, IS-GS was apart of IS-WAP before becoming its own branch of IS in 2023, yet it still has its own wiki article Alexander141104 (talk) 13:01, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

We have an entire section in this article "Relationship with the Islamic State" which talks about this issue. I could easily find more sources; for instance, during the Battle of Palma (2021) some rebels "firmly said they were not IS, but rather part of another unidentified group". Applodion (talk) 14:41, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

yeah but the problem with that is that this was during the height of when the Mozambican government didnt even want to admit that IS had presence in the country, so they were desperately denying their involvement in the battles of Palma and Mocímboa da Praia, despite IS showing proof Alexander141104 (talk) 10:28, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Please read the sources. Some rebels themselves denied that they were IS members, while other proudly showcased their IS membership. Applodion (talk) 10:33, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.