Talk:Alba Roballo/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk · contribs) 19:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Hi SusunW. I'd be happy to review this article. Topic looks quite fascinating. I'll have a read, and will message back when I formally begin the review. Thanks, SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 19:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Hi SusunW – just wanted to let you know I haven't forgotten this article! I've just got a bit of work to do at the moment, but should be able to have a look over the weekend, if that suits. Best, SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 18:54, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

No worries SerAntoniDeMiloni. SusunW (talk) 19:43, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

Review

Hi again SusunW. I've begun the review below. It's going to be a bit piecemeal, but I'll hope to go through each section in depth and detail. Overall a truly fascinating article that's well written! My comments will be below each section. SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 13:12, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

SerAntoniDeMiloni Piecemeal is totally fine. I review articles like that too. A bit of background, I chose her because Women in Red is doing an editathon on writers. My search of the Oxford Dictionary of Caribbean and Afro–Latin American Biography turned up her name as a writer but when I checked the article we had there was no mention of her writing at all. In gathering sources, I then discovered that there was confusion over whether she was or was not reelected in 1971. So, I decided to re-write it entirely and it just sort of mushroomed. I'll let you work on it and so that we don't trip over each other's feet (fingers), I'll respond later in the day. SusunW (talk) 14:13, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for that SusunW. That's quite an interesting spiral! From reading a bit more about about her to help with this review, Roballo was clearly a pioneering figure and well deserving of your attention. I'm also working on a couple of Women in Red articles, especially those of minorities, so I thought this would be a great article to explore further. SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 14:22, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Lead

• You write "she began to publish" – in my mind this suggests that she published her own books, which isn't clarified. Might "she began to write" be better?

 Done SusunW (talk) 19:53, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

• Possibly specify what prize Se levanta el sol won, and when.

I wish I knew. Though almost every source mentions the prize, they all just call it "el Primer Premio del Ministerio de Instrucción". I even tried searching for simply premio with her name and get nothing more. I already have the date 1942 in the sentence, but I rearranged it a bit. SusunW (talk) 19:53, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

• You say "Senator of the Colorado Party". I've amended this to about "Senator for the..."

Fine by me SusunW (talk) 19:53, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

• Having read " though she ran for re-election,", I'd suggest specifying "that year".

 Done SusunW (talk) 19:53, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

• "When the dictatorship ended, she ran for a Senate seat, but was unsuccessful" might flow better as "When the dictatorship ended, she unsuccessfully ran for a Senate seat" – It'd be good to hear your input.

 Done I'm always happy to have fresh eyes. I write while I am translating, so sometimes things are phrased awkwardly. I try to catch these, but it doesn't always happen ;) SusunW (talk) 19:53, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

- Overall: A couple of suggestions above, but no major issues. Well written overall.

Early life and education

• "There were eight children in the family and from birth, Roballo accompanied her mother to her work in the school." might be better split up. If the "Roballo accompanied her mother to her work in the school." could be attached to the sentence saying that her mother worked at the school. And then "Roballo was one of eight children"

Flipped it  Done SusunW (talk) 20:26, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

• I've changed the interwiki link for her ancestor to blue. Also changed the Battlist link to the english wiki.

Hmmm, I'm not sure either of those changes are helpful. For the link on Genaro Berón de Astrada, the reader, who may not speak Spanish, ends up on a Spanish-language page. The "ill" link at least advises them there isn't an English-language article but they can read the Spanish one for more information. As for Batllist, I don't think it's helpful to go to a biography of the person who created the ideology, as it tells you nothing much about what the ideology was. (It's kind of like redirecting socialism to Karl Marx). I am thinking that these need to go back to the original links. SusunW (talk) 20:26, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Your point definitely makes sense. Feel free to revert my edit there :) SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 23:38, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Okay, took these two back to the original. SusunW (talk) 17:23, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

• Palma Sola was unlinked. I've linked this to the Spanish page (Arroyo Palma Sola Grande)

Same comments as above, it is abrupt to take a reader, who may not speak Spanish, direct to a Spanish-language page. SusunW (talk) 20:26, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Same as above SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 23:38, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Took this one back too. SusunW (talk) 17:23, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

• I've specified "native" with Charrua.

Fine SusunW (talk) 20:26, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

• Did the whole family move to Salto when you said "they"? If Roballo did, you could specify "Here she continued her primary education".

Sorry, I'm confused, the family lived in all three places. Her mother taught, and Roballo went to school. To my eye, it already says that? SusunW (talk) 20:26, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Not sure here. When I read it, I'm left unsure as to wether "they" is the close family or others too. Might be worth checking again? SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 23:38, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done changed they to the family. SusunW (talk) 17:23, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

• It might be helpful to add a note specifying what the Uruguayan style of school naming is. e.g. the "Liceo No. 1 in Artigas".

I don't know what the Uruguayan style of school naming is, I am simply stating what the source says? It seems to me, I would need to find a source to make a note for that and I'm not sure where I would find a secondary source that explains how schools are named. Perhaps you know of one? SusunW (talk) 20:26, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

I've had a look and couldn't seem to find any... Might be worth adding (just in a note tab) that this was the standard form of Uruguayan school naming? SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 23:38, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

I'm truly not trying to be argumentative, just not sure why that is important. It's a fairly common naming trend world wide, i.e. Public School #X (US), "Escuela Estatal No. X" (Mexico), Government School #X (Belize), "école n°X" (Belgium, France), школа №X (Russia) etc. and doesn't seem like it would cause confusion to anyone. SusunW (talk) 19:55, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Of course – no worries there! I hope I didn't come across that way! (Schools in the UK tend to have specific names, so this threw me off a little bit – if it's standard elsewhere that's totally fine. I've learned something new.) Sorry for taking a while to respond here – I've been quite immersed in work. I'm hoping to do a couple more sections today, and near the end of comments tomorrow. Thanks!, SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 20:40, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

LOL, okay, so you Brits march to your own drummer, why is that unsurprising? I truly didn't think you were being pushy in the slightest, just couldn't figure out why it was unusual. (I've lived a lot of places and everywhere we have lived it's been common.) Not to worry, SerAntoniDeMiloni about the time, as I am plenty busy working on other women. When you get to it you do. SusunW (talk) 22:03, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

• Did Roballo continue education whil teaching in Montevideo?

Sources aren't clear whether she taught while she studied law or not. Perhaps she did, perhaps she didn't. I looked but was unable to find anything that definitively said. SusunW (talk) 20:26, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

- To be continued.

Career

• You say "Her works were introduced abroad by...". Do you know when this introduction took place? SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 07:31, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

None, sorry. SusunW (talk) 15:01, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

• Maybe change "media platform" to mouthpiece.

 Done SusunW (talk) 15:01, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

• Under political career, is " Vicente" a place?

I wish I knew. I did a lot of searching trying to figure out if it was a town, neighborhood, person, etc. I couldn't find anything and am guessing it no longer exists. It may well be that I don't know exactly how to search, i.e. all Spanish is not the same. Here "colonia" means neighborhood. I get the idea that there it is more akin to pueblo. Most sources just said she worked for three of Cajas de Asignaciones. SusunW (talk) 15:01, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

• More generally, might it be worth formatting Spanish names (such as Concejo Departamental de Montevideo) in italics?

MOS:BADITALICS says not to. SusunW (talk) 15:01, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for making me aware of that :) SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 18:20, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

• It's mentioned that Alba "effectively became the Mayor of Montevideo when she took office in 1955." I'm not totally clear here – as per Intendant of Montevideo, there seems to have been someone in that office at the time. Might it be worth clarifying?

The source says "Además, fue vicepresidenta del Concejo Departamental de Montevideo - una intendencia colegiada - lo que llevó a que fuera considerada como la primera mujer intendente de Montevideo, algo que poco se valora y poco se dice". ["In addition, she was vice-president of the Departmental Council of Montevideo - a collegiate mayor - which led to her being considered the first female mayor of Montevideo, something that is little valued and little is said."] I'm not sure what his exact meaning was, so I changed it to state "been involved in the leadership of the city government". SusunW (talk) 15:01, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Looks good. 18:20, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

• "With her appointment, she became the first Uruguayan (and South American) woman to serve as a cabinet minister" might be rephrased as "With her appointment, she became the first woman to serve as a cabinet minister in South America". Would be interesting to hear thoughts.

I think we lose something by eliminating her country. I changed it to read "first woman to serve as a cabinet minister in Uruguay, as well as in South America". If that suits, then  Done SusunW (talk) 15:01, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

That works nicely SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 18:20, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

• Do you have any sources for Enrique Martínez Moreno?

Full bio Diario 3864-S025DEFINITIVO - Cámara de Representantes,(18 June 2013), pp 21-24. SusunW (talk) 15:01, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

• "She was not re-elected to the Senate in 1971" could be changed, as per the earlier change, to "Despite standing for re-election, Roballo was not returned to the Senate in 1971."

 Done SusunW (talk) 15:01, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

- No problems with the rest of this section. More to come later.

SerAntoniDeMiloni Sorry for the delay in responding. We were literally a bit "under the weather" here for several days. Fortunately on our side of the peninsula, that only meant a lot of rain and leaks. Elsewhere damage was far more significant. SusunW (talk) 15:01, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

SusunW No worries – good to hear that you're fine! I've responded to your comments above, and continued with the review below. SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 18:20, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Later career (1973–1993) & Death and legacy

• Added link to Spanish page for the Independent Democratic Left party.

Rest of section is great. No issues with the "Death and legacy" section either. SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 18:58, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Images

• I think it'd be great if a couple of photos could be sourced for the article. Though there is the header photo, I feel the article might be improved further with the addition of photos. I'm having a look for some now. SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 18:58, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Not sure if you've seen before, but a good source here. https://anaforas.fic.edu.uy/jspui/bitstream/123456789/47159/1/Alba_Roballo.pdf Some of the photos could fall under fair use. I couldn't find much in the National Archives of Uruguay photo-wise. http://radio36.com.uy/entrevistas/2018/09/08/roballo.html has a photo and https://www.martes.com.uy/el-estado-volvio-para-quedarse has another – the latter mentions a file number, indicating that it may come from the archives and fall under fair use/Public Domain. Might require some more research. SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 19:14, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

One of the things that is so great about collaboration is that we all have access to different sources. None of those came up in my searches from Mexico. Photographs are particularly hard and I think I can only load 1 as fair use (because you have to check that box that it is being used at the top of the article to identify a deceased person). I'm leery of using photographs from Uruguay since the Uruguay Round Agreements Act is named after them. But, in general, what I see is for an unknown author, 50 years from publication and for a known author 50 years from death, making none of these eligible for commons for another decade or more. SusunW (talk) 19:49, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

There's some quite interesting stuff in the 1988 Brecha article – some specifically on her foreign policy views. Might it be worth adding these in? As to the article, it seems that https://anaforas.fic.edu.uy/jspui/ , the publisher, is affiliated with the Universidad de La Republica (Uruguay). I'll have a look to see if their catalogue is under fair use. I'll continue looking. SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 20:06, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

I love the way she speaks in interviews. Ipigott was able to access some of her poetry, and said he was surprised none of it had been translated into English. Her description of walking the rural areas to school and then taking the train paints very vivid pictures, as does her phrasing in discussing the "seduction of politics". Perhaps in the 2nd paragraph of Later life we add something along the lines of "After perestroika policies were implemented to reform the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, Roballo traveled to the USSR. Though skeptical that the country would be able to change, she concluded after her trip that because the Russians both revered their past but were critical of it, that they would succeed in merging their socialist past with a more global approach"? If you meant something else, let me know, or just add it. SusunW (talk) 21:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

I completely agree. It was primarily the perestroika section that I was thinking about. SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 09:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done SusunW (talk) 13:26, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Citations

• Whole article is well cited. It might be worth adding “yo era la negra que le gustaba el vino, la que tenía costumbres difíciles y se juntaba con los negros del barrio Sur"(Sapriza, 1988). Found here: http://servicios.abc.gov.ar/lainstitucion/protagonistas/roballo.html SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 18:58, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Sorry I am starting and stopping, but the roofer is here and trying to fix the roof and I'm the fetchit lady. LOL. I added it to the later career section that talks about her black heritage, if you think that's a good location, then  Done. SusunW (talk) 20:04, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Looks good there! SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 08:10, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Final Review & Conclusion

I see no further issues here SusunW – It's been great fun working on this article! My review is attached below.

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail: