Talk:Albanian Land Forces.

Disputed text

The following unsourced material was added to the article by an editor who has a history of vandalism, POV and unsourced edits. Please find sources, before readding it in the text. - Mgm|^(talk) 10:01, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

As of March 2004, the Land Forces Command had 45,000 personnel, 550 main battle tanks, 650 infantry combat vehicles, 800 towed artillery pieces, and unknown number of rocket launchers. Some equipment has been scraped, or put in storage. The following have been scrapped due to their poor condition and high maintenance costs: the T-34/76, T-54 and some 150 Type 59 tanks. The following have been put in storage: PT-76, BRDM-1, Type 60, and some 150 Type 59 tanks, The T-34/85 have been put in storage, apart from that all other equipment in list below are operational. 550 tanks remain operational & over 650 APC's & IFV's, at time of war Albania can mobilise 820 Tanks & 990 APC's & IFV's, there have also been a recent purchase of 300 HMMWV's 150 of which are equipped with BGM-71 TOW anti tank rockets, also the 130 M113 APC's were a Military aid donation from Turkey to Albania and around 50 of the M113 will be equiped with BGM-71 TOW, these are just some of the new things that have been introduced in Albanian Military Arsenal for its modernization, Albania also purchased in mid 1990's over x50 T-62M & x45 T-62A tanks from Ex-East German stock and so were the BMP-1,BMP-2 and BRDM-2 they were put in service near the border with Kosovo during the 1998-1999 Kosovo War

Tanks

• PT-76 - PT-76B version
• T34/76 - few
• T34/85 - many
• T-54
• T-55
• T-62 - T-62A & T-62M versions
• Type 59 - T-55 Chinese copy
• Type 62 - Light tank version of Type 59 (T-55 Chinese copy)
• Type 63 light tank - Chinese copy of PT-76B with T-55 turret & 105mm gun

IFV's & APC's

• HMMWV
• M113
• BMP-1
• BMP-2
• BRDM-1
• BRDM-2
• BTR-40
• BTR-50
• Type 77 - Chinese copy of BTR-50
• Type 60-I - tracked truck (tractor)
• Type 63 (armoured personnel carrier)

Graphic of the Structure of the Army of Albania

I'm currently working on a project to create graphics of the structure of the European Armies. i.e. France. I want to make also a graphic of the Albanian Army, but the information at this point is not sufficient. Has someone information on the units of the Albanian Army? There is a chart of the structure at http://www.mod.gov.al/eng/forcat/FTStrukture.asp but the file can not be opened. I need to know which units compromise the Albanian Army down to the Bataillon level. Thanks noclador

Update discussion with Gon4z

You changed the numbers in the article back to old numbers: Please can you cite your sources? My source is "The World Defence Almanac 2006", Mönch Publishing Group, Bonn 2006. Regarding the numbers I inserted:

• 8,300 is the current strength of active troops of the Albanian Army- the 40,000 you cite are outdated. We could also mention that there are 20,000 reserves organized in 5 regional Command Brigades.
• According to my information all Tanks except for 79x Type 59 have been put in storage or scrapped. This is also reflected in the existence of only one remaining Tank Battalion.
• The 130x M113 have been delivered by Turkey/ with American approval to enable the Albanian Military to put in storage/ scrap their remaining Soviet and Chinese Armoured Personal Carriers. 130 M113 can transport 1690 soldiers - the equivalent of 3 Mechanized Battalions.
• Regarding Artillery: 18x Towed Artillery Pieces, 90x 122mm Heavy Mortars, 5x Multiple Rocket Launcher is the correct number of active Artillery Systems, as with your numbers, there would be 2 Artillery systems for each soldier in the Artillery Battalion.

I restored the numbers I had inserted, but I also made a new list of equipment, that is currently in storage. I hope you can agree to this compromise. noclador 09:10, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Update discussion with noclador

I have restored my number this my sources are citied and if that is not enough for you, then check the military of Albania article there is more links there the Albanian military had original plans of decreasing the military number which they did into 50,000 the air force is the one that will be mainly decreased the navy and land forces will remain at the same number this is stuff was all announced in April the 17 2007 on Albanian national TV along with the news that the Albanian military spending has been raised into 2.5% because of our troops in Afghanistan, Bosnia, Iraq & Lebanon. Your source come from a Greek anti Albanian website go to the main page and read all the anti Albanian slogans you are going to tell me tats a valid source Gon4z 20:36, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Personal attacks do not make wrong information true. If you had read the new articles you would have seen that I did not delete your paragraphs, but that I moved them to the more appropriate article. Also my source is not some Greek "anti Albanian website", but a NATO military publication. My other source is the official homepage of the Albanian Army. The source you cite: [1] is 12 (!) years old, as your source still lists 2 Whiskey Class submarines that were retired in 1995!

Also I must inform you that I'm in no way Anti Albanian: I served voluntarily in Kosovo as a soldier with the Italian Army during 2000 and 2001. Furthermore my family has donated a school and a kindergarten in the village of Fushe Arrez. Therefore I’m very upset by your insults. I hope you will not resort to personal attacks in the future. noclador 22:12, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Another source for you to look at (from 2004): http://www.csees.net/?page=country_section&country_id=1&sec=8

you are delusional how can Albania’s T-62M & T-55AM2 which Albania purchased in 1995 the latest tanks to ever be purchased be in storage get real and Albania’s older Type 59 be in service you are posting miss information some thing goes for Albania’s BMP-1, BMP-2 & BRDM-2.Also how can Albania have only 18 peaces of artillery when they purchased 100 peaces from USA in 2004? I’am sorry I will keep changing this miss information you are posting Gon4z 15:46, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Where is your source for this claim? I'd like to see references with clear data and numbers of pieces of equipment. MrMacMan ^Talk 17:33, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Protection?

This page needed protection? The only reverts were made by the now blocked User:Gon4z... and he's been blocked for the next 2 days so he can't even comment here. So... what's up? MrMacMan ^Talk 02:07, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

vandalism by User:MrMacMan&User:Noclador

This article and many other that are linked to Albania have been vandalized by User talk:MrMacMan & User talk:Noclador if you look at you’re their source it clearly says Albania ahs 373x Type-59 tanks operational where did you get the Number 79 from it is a clear vandalism every figure that you two have presented contradict with you figures http://www.csees.net/?page=country_section&country_id=1&sec=8 the surce they have presented Gon4z 20:18, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

says user (Gon4z) who got banned three times in a week for vandalism, insulting other users, edit warring and violation of the 3 revert rule and continues this pattern now at: Greeks, Greek diaspora, Islam in Serbia, Serbian Air Force, Albanians, Islam in Albania and a dozen other articles! noclador 02:22, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

That means I am not a SUCK up like you who goes ruing crying to the admins because he cannot win a dispute, who also changes my pots in the talk page to make it look like I have threatened or attacked hi, and all that still does not change the fact that you do not quote your source correctly it says 373 tanks not 79 where are you getting that number from Hummm... You have vandalized nearly every article there is to do with Albania or Albanians you remove sourced edits just because you don’t want them to be true and wish to spared propaganda, you clearly have some sort of hate against Albanians and like to express it by vandalizing articles Gon4z 00:34, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Gon4z has been indefinitely blocked from editing in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for ongoing disruption, creating blatant copyright violations, incivility, worsening behavior, edit-warring coming right off his 4th block for the same, seeming inability to edit collaboratively, and a general pattern of worsening disruptive behavior. (see here) --noclador 06:54, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

WoW

LoL, this article has big a big battle field for some months, by the looks of it well since one of the users has been banned maybe now it can get back to how it’s supposed to be. I made my first edit on this article on the MORTAR section since there is no such thing as a 122mm Mortar, and the source says that there is 550 120mm MORTARS in service and 360 other calibers 82mm & 160mm.Naco-Taco 01:19, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Naco-Taco/82.35.34.170/Gon4z- don't! --noclador 08:46, 18 June 2007 (UTC)