Talk:Alexander Technique/Archive 5

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Suggestions for desperately needed edits (another attempt)

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments2 people in discussion

Don't think this section needs to exist as it duplicated the above but citations are wiki style but copied formatting poorly — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.129.197.221 (talk) 15:31, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

This page has been edited in a suspiciously biased way (probably due to added scrutiny of its miscategorization as alternative medicine and assumptions about AT from overzealous WikiProject Skepticism members with no experience of the work [ex. from common editors profiles "We are biased against pseudoscience ... biased against acupuncture" etc.]).

The non-medical uses of the AT are hardly represented at all and the focus of the article seems to be more about skepticism than a proper explanation of the AT. The current supporting material is relying too heavily on internal sources so I included better source material below.

I suggest renaming the section "health effects" to "insurance and medical adoption" to more accurately reflect the content there moving any medical claims for or against to the uses section. I have written a draft of edits with peer-reviewed sources for any health claims mostly from medical journals.

Editors please help this sad page, the uses section is beyond pathetic compared to it's very common real world applications that I have cited below.

Intro

The Alexander Technique, named after its developer Frederick Matthias Alexander (1869–1955), is an educational method used for more than 100 years to help individuals learn to correct inefficient or faulty movement and postural habits, reducing potentially harmful tension accumulation by changing how one conceptualizes and responds to the stimulus of movement; the AT is not a treatment or therapy but a method known within the AT community as mind-body re-education[1]. Movement is a focus in learning the AT, however, the AT is generally taught as an educational system rather than movement therapy[2].

Alexander began developing his technique's principles in the 1890s[3] in an attempt to address his own voice loss during public speaking.[4]: 34–35 He credited his method with allowing him to pursue his passion for performing Shakespearean recitations.[5]

Proponents and teachers of the Alexander Technique believe the technique can address a variety of health conditions, but research findings are mixed.[6][7][8] [9][10] As of 2021, the UK National Health Service cites evidence that the Alexander Technique may be helpful for long-term back pain and for long-term neck pain, and that it could help people cope with Parkinson's disease.[10] Both the American health-insurance company Aetna and the Australian Department of Health have conducted reviews and concluded that there is insufficient evidence for the technique's health claims to warrant insurance coverage.[9][11]

Uses

The AT has a wide range of applications; in a 2012 systematic review published in the International Journal of Clinical Practice it was concluded that “Strong evidence exists for the effectiveness of AT lessons for chronic back pain and moderate evidence in Parkinson’s-associated disability. Preliminary evidence suggests that AT lessons may lead to improvements in balance skills in the elderly, in general chronic pain, posture, respiratory function and stuttering” [12]. There is evidence that lessons in the AT likely lead to sustained benefit for people with Parkinson’s disease [13]. After having lessons, Parkinson’s patients had significantly less difficulty in performing daily activities, were significantly less depressed, had a significantly more positive body concept and significantly less difficulty on the fine movement and gross movement subscales of the activities [14]. AT lessons may provide a useful approach to improve mental wellbeing by increasing one’s sense of control, confidence and agency in a range of settings [15]. A study of people with chronic lower back pain found significant differences before and after AT lessons in their constructs of intention, perceived risk, direct attitude and behavioral beliefs [16]. Perhaps not coincidentally, the AT was influential in the creation of some forms of psychotherapy, including Gestalt therapy [17].

AT lessons are commonly used as an effective intervention for reducing chronic lower back pain [18], as one on one lessons in the AT from registered teachers have shown long term benefits for patients with chronic back pain [19]. Using EMG to record muscle activity, one study found AT lessons decreased axial stiffness by 29% on average in subjects with low back pain while resisting rotation, concluding with the authors suggestion that dynamic modulation of postural tone can be enhanced through long-term training in the AT [20]. Participants in another study reported significantly reduced neck pain and fatigue of the superficial neck flexors during a cranio-cervical flexion test in a study that concluded group AT classes may provide a cost-effective approach to reducing neck pain [21]. There was a significant reduction in knee pain, stiffness and co-contraction recorded in a study following AT instruction in people with knee osteoarthritis; there was also an improvement in function which appeared to be maintained at 15 months post-baseline [22]. A strong association was found between a course of AT instruction and increases in measures of respiratory muscular strength and endurance in healthy young and middle-aged adults [23]. AT lessons resulted in trends towards fewer falls and injurious falls along with improved mobility among past multiple-fallers [24], and improved functional reach in older women [25]. The AT has also been applied in cases of joint hypermobility [26]. A pilot study published in The Journal of Urology showed that an AT training program designed for laparoscopic surgeons resulted in significant improvement in posture, improved surgical ergonomics and endurance as well as decreases in surgical fatigue and the incidence of repetitive strain injury [27]

Clearly the AT has implications for movement coordination [28], perhaps this is why the AT is an integral part of curricula at elite drama and music schools including Juilliard, the Curtis Institute of Music and the Royal Academy of Music [29] The method is said by actors to reduce stage fright and to increase spontaneity.[30] There is a particular interest in application of AT among dancers [31] and musicians [32]. AT principles have been applied to music pedagogy and performance by singers [33] [34][35], harpists [36], violinists and violists [37][38][39][40], cellists [41], and bassists [42][43] among many others. A recent study found that purpose-designed AT classes for music students may beneficially influence performance related pain and the associated risk factors of poor posture, excess muscle tension, stress and performance anxiety; there were also reports of improvements to instrumental technique, performance level and practice effectiveness indicating the relevance of AT training to musical skill development[44]. In another study, application of the AT to music performance showed improvement relative to controls in overall music and technical quality as judged by independent experts blind to subjects' condition assignment; there were also improvements in heart rate variance, self-rated anxiety and positive attitude to performance [45] . While more and better designed research is needed to accurately quantify the effect of the AT on artistic performance there does seem to be a general consensus among a large number of successful artists in a variety of fields that the AT has a positive overall effect on artistic life, on and off the stage [46].

Insurance Coverage & Medical Reception

The high prevalence of musculoskeletal issues in the general population suggests that AT lessons could be useful as an early referral option in primary healthcare [47], however, despite the promise of the AT, the philosophical systems embedded within it and the near deification of its founder has lead to resistance in the AT’s adoption by biomedicine[48]. While the AT community has struggled to gain mainstream medical adoption there has been strong support from members of the medical community who see the benefits of the work for their patients, particularly among physical therapists [49].

A review of evidence for the Alexander Technique for various health conditions provided by the UK National Health Service, last updated in 2021, found that there was evidence suggesting that it might help with:

long-term back pain – lessons in the technique may lead to reduced back pain-associated disability and reduce how often you feel pain for up to a year or more long-term neck pain – lessons in the technique may lead to reduced neck pain and associated disability for up to a year or more Parkinson's disease – lessons in the technique may help you carry out everyday tasks more easily and improve how you feel about your condition[10] The NHS further states: "Some research has also suggested the Alexander Technique may improve general long-term pain, stammering, and balance skills in older people to help them avoid falls. But the evidence in these areas is limited and more studies are needed. There's currently little evidence to suggest the Alexander Technique can help improve other health conditions, including asthma, headaches, osteoarthritis, difficulty sleeping (insomnia) and stress."[10]

A review published in BMC Complementary and Alternative Medicine in 2014 focused on "the evidence for the effectiveness of AT sessions on musicians' performance, anxiety, respiratory function and posture" concluded that: "Evidence from RCTs and CTs suggests that AT sessions may improve performance anxiety in musicians. Effects on music performance, respiratory function and posture yet remain inconclusive."[50]

A 2012 Cochrane systematic review found that there is no conclusive evidence that the Alexander Technique is effective for treating asthma, and randomized clinical trials are needed in order to assess the effectiveness of this type of treatment approach.[51]

A review by Aetna last updated in 2021 stated: "Aetna considers the following alternative medicine interventions experimental and investigational, because there is inadequate evidence in the peer-reviewed published medical literature of their effectiveness." The Alexander Technique is included in that list.[11]

A 2015 review, conducted for the Australia Department of Health in order to determine what services the Australian government should pay for, examined clinical trials published to date and found that: "Overall, the evidence was limited by the small number of participants in the intervention arms, wide confidence intervals or a lack of replication of results." It concluded that: "The Alexander Technique may improve short-term pain and disability in people with low back pain, but the longer-term effects remain uncertain. For all other clinical conditions, the effectiveness of Alexander Technique was deemed to be uncertain, due to insufficient evidence." It also noted that: "Evidence for the safety of Alexander Technique was lacking, with most trials not reporting on this outcome.[9] Subsequently in 2017, the Australian government named the Alexander Technique as a practice that would not qualify for insurance subsidy, saying this step would "ensure taxpayer funds are expended appropriately and not directed to therapies lacking evidence".[52]

Citations

Williams, Angela The Alexander Technique, Complementary and Alternative Medicine Sourcebook, 6th Edition July 2018 978-0-7808-1632-9 pages 439-441

Woods C., Glover L., Woodman J. An Education for Life: The Process of Learning the Alexander Technique Kinesiology Review Volume 9: Issue 3 14 Aug 2020 https://doi.org/10.1123/kr.2020-0020

Rootberg, Ruth (September 2007). Mandy Rees (ed.). "Voice and Gender and other contemporary issues in professional voice and speech training". Voice and Speech Review. 35 (1): 164–170. doi:10.1080/23268263.2007.10769755. S2CID 144810660.

Bloch, Michael (2004). F.M.: The Life of Frederick Matthias Alexander: Founder of the Alexander Technique. London: Little, Brown. ISBN 978-0-316-86048-2.

Harer, John B.; Munden, Sharon (2008). The Alexander Technique Resource Book: A Reference Guide. Scarecrow Press. pp. xii–xiii. ISBN 978-0810863927. Retrieved 3 June 2014.

Woodman, J. P. Moore, N. R. Evidence for the effectiveness of Alexander Technique lessons in medical and health-related conditions: a systematic review 2012 - International Journal of Clinical Practice VL - 66 IS - 1 SN - 1368-5031 UR https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1742-1241.2011.02817.x

Hafezi M., Rahemi Z., Ajorpaz N.M., Izadi F.S., The effect of the Alexander Technique on pain intensity in patients with chronic low back pain: A randomized controlled trial, Journal of Bodywork and Movement Therapies, Volume 29, 2022, Pages 54-59, ISSN 1360-8592, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jbmt.2021.09.025.

Little P, Lewith G, Webley F, Evans M, Beattie A, Middleton K et al. Randomized controlled trial of Alexander technique lessons, exercise, and massage (ATEAM) for chronic and recurrent back pain British Medical Journal 2008; 337 :a884 doi:10.1136/bmj.a884

Baggoley C (2015). "Review of the Australian Government Rebate on Natural Therapies for Private Health Insurance" (PDF). Australian Government – Department of Health. Archived from the original (PDF) on 26 June 2016. Retrieved 12 December 2015.

Lay summary in: Gavura, S. (19 November 2015). "Australian review finds no benefit to 17 natural therapies". Science-Based Medicine.

"Alexander Technique". National Health Service. 17 October 2017. Retrieved 1 December 2021.
"Medical Clinical Policy Bulletin Number 0388: Complementary and Alternative Medicine". Aetna. Retrieved 1 December 2021.

Woodman, J. P. Moore, N. R. Evidence for the effectiveness of Alexander Technique lessons in medical and health-related conditions: a systematic review 2012 - International Journal of Clinical Practice VL - 66 IS - 1 SN - 1368-5031 UR https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1742-1241.2011.02817.x

Stallibrass, C., Sissons, P., & Chalmers, C. (2002). Randomized controlled trial of the alexander technique for idiopathic parkinson's disease. Clinical Rehabilitation, 16(7), 695-708. doi:https://doi.org/10.1191/0269215502cr544oa

Stallibrass C. An evaluation of the Alexander Technique for the management of disability in Parkinson’s disease- a preliminary study. Clinical Rehabilitation. 1997;11(1):8-12. doi:10.1177/026921559701100103

Kinsey D., Glover L., Wadephul F., How does the Alexander Technique lead to psychological and non-physical outcomes? A realist review, European Journal of Integrative Medicine, Volume 46, 2021, ISSN 1876-3820, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.eujim.2021.101371

Kamalikhah T., Morowatisharifabad M. Rezaei-Moghaddam F., Ghasemi M. Gholami-Fesharaki M. Goklani S. Alexander Technique Training Coupled With an Integrative Model of Behavioral Prediction in Teachers With Low Back Pain Iran Red Crescent Medical Journal 2016 Sep; 18(9): e31218. Published online 2016 Aug 9. doi: 10.5812/ircmj.31218

Tengwall, Roger A note on the influence of F. M. Alexander on the development of gestalt therapy Journal of the History of the Behavioral Sciences volume 17 issue 1 1981 https://doi.org/10.1002/1520-6696(198101)17:1<126::AID-JHBS2300170113>3.0.CO;2-X

Hafezi M., Rahemi Z., Ajorpaz N.M., Izadi F.S., The effect of the Alexander Technique on pain intensity in patients with chronic low back pain: A randomized controlled trial, Journal of Bodywork and Movement Therapies, Volume 29, 2022, Pages 54-59, ISSN 1360-8592, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jbmt.2021.09.025.

Little P, Lewith G, Webley F, Evans M, Beattie A, Middleton K et al. Randomized controlled trial of Alexander technique lessons, exercise, and massage (ATEAM) for chronic and recurrent back pain British Medical Journal 2008; 337 :a884 doi:10.1136/bmj.a884

Cacciatore T.W., Gurfinkel V.S., Horak F.B., Cordo P.J., Ames K.E., Increased dynamic regulation of postural tone through Alexander Technique training, Human Movement Science, Volume 30, Issue 1, 2011, Pages 74-89, ISSN 0167-9457, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.humov.2010.10.002.

Becker, J. J., Copeland, S. L., Botterbusch, E. L., & Cohen, R. G. (2018). Preliminary evidence for feasibility, efficacy, and mechanisms of Alexander technique group classes for chronic neck pain. Complementary Therapies in Medicine, 39, 80–86. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ctim.2018.05.012

Preece, S.J., Jones, R.K., Brown, C.A. et al. Reductions in co-contraction following neuromuscular re-education in people with knee osteoarthritis. BMC Musculoskeletal Disorders 17, 372 (2016). https://doi.org/10.1186/s12891-016-1209-2

Austin, John H.M., and Pearl Ausubel. "Enhanced respiratory muscular function in normal adults after lessons in proprioceptive musculoskeletal education without exercises." Chest, vol. 102, no. 2, Aug. 1992, pp. 486+

Gleeson, M., Sherrington, C., Lo, S., & Keay, L. (2015). Can the alexander technique improve balance and mobility in older adults with visual impairments? A randomized controlled trial. Clinical Rehabilitation, 29(3), 244-260. https://doi.org/10.1177/0269215514542636

Dennis Ronald J, Functional Reach Improvement in Normal Older Women After Alexander Technique Instruction, The Journals of Gerontology: Series A, Volume 54, Issue 1, January 1999, Pages M8-M11 https://doi.org/10.1093/gerona/54.1.M8

Bull, Philip The Alexander Technique Hypermobility Syndromes Association Journal Volume 3 Spring 2015

Pramod P. Reddy, Trisha P. Reddy, Jennifer Roig-Francoli, Lois Cone, Bezalel Sivan, W. Robert DeFoor, Krishnanath Gaitonde, Paul H. Noh, The Impact of the Alexander Technique on Improving Posture and Surgical Ergonomics During Minimally Invasive Surgery: Pilot Study, The Journal of Urology, Volume 186, Issue 4, 2011, Pages 1658-1662, ISSN 0022-5347, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.juro.2011.04.013

Cacciatore Timothy W., Mian Omar S., Peters Amy, and Day Brian L. Neuromechanical interference of posture on movement: evidence from Alexander technique teachers rising from a chair Journal of Neurophysiology 2014 112:3, 719-729

Miller, B. X. (2003). The actor and the alexander technique. New York Library Journal, 128(6), 68 https://www.proquest.com/trade-journals/actor-alexander-technique/docview/196816372/se-2

Aronson, AE (1990). Clinical Voice Disorders: An Interdisciplinary Approach. Thieme Medical Publishers. ISBN 0-86577-337-8.

Lewis, K. (2006, 11). Understanding alexander technique. Dance Spirit, 10, 45. https://www.proquest.com/magazines/understanding-alexander-technique/docview/209305187/se-2

Korn, H. (2014). Indirect procedures: The musician's guide to the alexander technique. The American Music Teacher, 63(5), 49-50.

Rootberg R. “End-gaining”and the“Means-Whereby”: Discovering the best process to achieve goals of vocal training and pedagogy using the Alexander Technique, 2011 Voice and Speech Review, 7:1, 157-163, DOI: 10.1080/23268263.2011.10739536

Neely, Dawn Wells. "Body consciousness and singers: do voice teachers use mind-body methods with students and in their own practice?" Journal of Singing, vol. 73, no. 2, Nov.-Dec. 2016, pp. 137+.

Peterson, P. H. (2008). on the Voice: Alexander Or Feldenkrais: Which Method Is Best? The Choral Journal, 48(11), 67–72. http://www.jstor.org/stable/23556912

Hembreiker, Linda-Rose. "Teaching with the Alexander Technique." American Harp Journal, winter 2010, pp. 41+.

Cotik, T. (2019). Concepts of the Alexander Technique and Practical Ideas for Musicians. American String Teachers Association Journal, 69(2), 33–36. https://doi-org.library.esc.edu/10.1177/0003131319835543

Cotik, T. Developing a natural and relaxed approach to string playing - part 1 Strad Magazine Feb. 2017 https://www.thestrad.com/developing-a-natural-and-relaxed-approach-to-string-playing-part-1/1857.article

Austin, John L. “The Shoulders: To Rest Or Not To Rest?” American Center for the Alexander Technique Sept. 2014 https://www.acatnyc.org/blog-posts/2014/09/11/the-shoulders-to-rest-or-not-to-rest

Lacraru, Emanuela Maria, "Supporting your instrument in a body-friendly manner : a comparative approach" 2014 DMA diss., Louisiana State University. https://digitalcommons.lsu.edu/gradschool_dissertations/2829

Alcantara, Pedro D. Indirect Procedures: A Musician’s Guide to the Alexander Technique 1st Edition Oxford University Press April 1997 ISBN - ‎0198165692 978-0198165699

Buckoke P. Double bassist Peter Buckoke on treating head and neck pain 2019 Strad Magazine https://www.thestrad.com/playing-hub/double-bassist-peter-buckoke-on-treating-head-and-neck-pain/1922.article

Chou, Yun-Chieh. “When the Mouse Meets the Elephant: A Manual for String Bass Players with Application of the Philosophy and Principles of the F. M. Alexander Technique.” 2013 DMA diss., Louisiana State University

Davies, J Alexander Technique classes improve pain and performance factors in tertiary music students Journal of Bodywork and Movement Therapies Vol. 24 Issue 1 p.1-7 Jan 1, 2020 https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jbmt.2019.04.006

Valentine, E. R., Fitzgerald, D. F. P., Gorton, T. L., Hudson, J. A., & Symonds, E. R. C. (1995). The Effect of Lessons in the Alexander Technique on Music Performance in High and Low Stress Situations. Psychology of Music, 23(2), 129–141. https://doi.org/10.1177/0305735695232002

Iammatteo, E. (1996). The alexander technique: Improving the balance. Performing Arts & Entertainment in Canada, 30(3), 37. https://www.proquest.com/scholarly-journals/alexander-technique-improving-balance/docview/224880281/se-2

Eldred, J., Hopton, A., Donnison, E., Woodman, J., & MacPherson, H. (2015). Teachers of the alexander technique in the UK and the people who take their lessons: A national cross-sectional survey. Complementary Therapies in Medicine, 23(3), 451-461. doi:https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ctim.2015.04.006

Tarr, Jennifer Educating with the hands: working on the body/self in Alexander Technique Sociology of Health & Illness Vol. 33 No. 2 2011 ISSN 0141–9889, pp. 252–265doi: 10.1111/j.1467-9566.2010.01283.x

Stern J. The Alexander Technique: Mindfulness in Movement Relieves Suffering Alternative and Complementary Therapies Volume: 27 Issue 1: February 11, 2021 10-13. http://doi.org/10.1089/act.2020.29307.jcs

Klein, SD; Bayard, C; Wolf, U (24 October 2014). "The Alexander Technique and musicians: a systematic review of controlled trials". BMC Complementary and Alternative Medicine. 14: 414. doi:10.1186/1472-6882-14-414. PMC 4287507. PMID 25344325.

Dennis, JA; Cates, CJ (12 September 2012). "Alexander technique for chronic asthma". The Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews (9): CD000995. doi:10.1002/14651858.CD000995.pub2. PMC 6458000. PMID 22972048.

Paola S (17 October 2017). "Homeopathy, naturopathy struck off private insurance list". Australian Journal of Pharmacy.

McEvenue, Kelly; Rodenburg, Patsy (2002). The Actor and the Alexander Technique. New York: Palgrave Macmillan. pp. 3–14. ISBN 0-312-29515-4.

Jain, Sanjiv; Kristy Janssen; Sharon DeCelle (2004). "Alexander Technique and Feldenkrais method: A critical overview". Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation Clinics of North America. 15 (4): 811–825. CiteSeerX 10.1.1.611.4183. doi:10.1016/j.pmr.2004.04.005. PMID 15458754.

Arnold, Joan; Hope Gillerman (1997). "Frequently Asked Questions". American Society for the Alexander Technique. Retrieved 2 May 2007.

Little, P.; Lewith, G.; Webley, F.; Evans, M.; Beattie, A.; Middleton, K.; Barnett, J.; Ballard, K.; Oxford, F.; Smith, P.; Yardley, L.; Hollinghurst, S.; Sharp, D. (19 August 2008). "Randomised controlled trial of Alexander Technique lessons, exercise, and massage (ATEAM) for chronic and recurrent back pain". BMJ. 337 (aug19 2): a884. doi:10.1136/bmj.a884. PMC 3272681. PMID 18713809.

Cacciatore, T; et al. (2005). "Improvement in Automatic Postural Coordination Following Alexander Technique Lessons in a Person With Low Back Pain". Physical Therapy. 85 (6): 565–78. doi:10.1093/ptj/85.6.565. PMC 1351283. PMID 15921477. Archived from the original on 29 October 2006. Retrieved 15 July 2008.

Body Learning – An Introduction to the Alexander Technique, Macmillan, 1996 ISBN 0805042067, quote p. 74, an article in New Scientist by Professor John Basmajian entitled "Conscious Control of Single Nerve Cells"

The subject of "Means whereby, rather than the end, to be considered" is discussed many times in Man's Supreme Inheritance, typically Chapter VI, p. 263

Ernst E (2019). Alternative Medicine – A Critical Assessment of 150 Modalities. Springer. pp. 153–154. doi:10.1007/978-3-030-12601-8. ISBN 978-3-030-12600-1. S2CID 34148480.

Ryan, Alan (1997). John Dewey and the high tide of American liberalism. New York: W.W. Norton. pp. 187–188. ISBN 0-393-31550-9.

F. M. Alexander, Constructive Conscious Control of the Individual, E. P. Dutton & Co., 1923, ISBN 0-913111-11-2

Aldous Huxley, Eyeless in Gaza, Chatto & Windus, 1936 ISBN 978-0-06172-489-3 F. M. Alexander is named in the last section of Chapter 2. Miller, the character whose description immediately resembles Alexander, appears at the beginning of Chapter 49.

Tengwall, Roger (1996). "A note on the influence of F. M. Alexander on the development of gestalt therapy". Journal of the History of the Behavioral Sciences. Wiley. 17 (1): 126–130. doi:10.1002/1520-6696(198101)17:1<126::AID-JHBS2300170113>3.0.CO;2-X. ISSN 1520-6696. PMID 7007480.

The above unsigned screed is the suggestion, (by an WP:SPA account with WP:CIR issues), for a completely rewritten version of this article. It does not conform to Policy and Guidelines of wikipedia, and no changes to the article will be made. - Roxy the dog 13:55, 13 October 2022 (UTC) -

Looking for help making it conform to guidelines, perhaps you could help instead of obstructing the page's development. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 14:06, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

I have corrected your page indentation to conform with talk page guidelines. I am helping. I am preventing you from making a mess of the page. -Roxy the dog 14:13, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

The page has already been made a mess by you... 68.129.197.221 (talk) 14:58, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Suggestions for desperately needed edits

Latest comment: 2 years ago15 comments4 people in discussion

This page has been edited in a suspiciously biased way (probably due to added scrutiny of its miscategorization as alternative medicine and assumptions about AT from overzealous WikiProject Skepticism members with no experience of the work [ex. from common editor's profile "We are biased against pseudoscience ... biased against acupuncture" etc.]). I'm not trying to make an AT advert, editors have a perception that AT is a pseudoscientific alternative medicine practice, that's incorrect.

The non-medical uses of the AT are hardly represented at all and the focus of the article seems to be more about skepticism than a proper explanation of the AT. The current supporting material is relying too heavily on internal sources so I included better source material below.

I suggest renaming the section "health effects" to "insurance and medical adoption" to more accurately reflect the content there.

I have written a draft with peer-reviewed sources for any health claims mostly from medical journals. I also have put it into the wiki format in the link above and in draft with apa citation below. Editors please help this sad page, the uses section is beyond pathetic compared to it's very common real world applications (that I have cited!!!)

This is not quackwatch etc, this is where people come for general/introductory information and all that's in the page's body is either skepticism or vague and inaccurate descriptions; neutrality in editorial tone is not on the table it seems.

AT is better categorized as a complementary therapy not alternative medicine 68.129.197.221 (talk) 17:49, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

The Complete Guide to Complementary Therapies in Cancer Care, pp. 155-159 (2011) https://www.worldscientific.com/doi/10.1142/9789814335669_0023

https://scoliosisclinic.co.uk/blog/complementary-therapies-and-scoliosis/

https://wp.stolaf.edu/musician-health/complementary-practices/

https://alexandertechnique.co.uk/public/document/registering-complementary-natural-healthcare-council

https://nass.co.uk/managing-my-as/exercise/complementary-therapies/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.129.197.221 (talk) 18:55, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Intro:

Used for more than 100 years, the Alexander Technique is an educational method that helps individuals learn to correct inefficient or faulty movement and postural habits, reducing potentially harmful tension accumulation by changing how one conceptualizes and responds to the stimulus of movement; the AT is not a passive treatment but a method known within the AT community as mind-body re-education (Williams 2018). Movement is a focus in learning the AT, however, the AT is generally taught as an educational system rather than movement therapy (Woods 2020).

The AT has a wide range of applications; in a 2012 systematic review published in the International Journal of Clinical Practice it was concluded that “Strong evidence exists for the effectiveness of AT lessons for chronic back pain and moderate evidence in Parkinson’s-associated disability. Preliminary evidence suggests that AT lessons may lead to improvements in balance skills in the elderly, in general chronic pain, posture, respiratory function and stuttering” (Woodman, Moore 2012).

AT in the Medical Field

There is evidence that lessons in the AT likely lead to sustained benefit for people with Parkinson’s disease (Stallibrass, et al. 2002). After having lessons, Parkinson’s patients had significantly less difficulty in performing daily activities, were significantly less depressed, had a significantly more positive body concept and significantly less difficulty on the fine movement and gross movement subscales of the activities (Stallibrass 1997). AT lessons may provide a useful approach to improve mental wellbeing by increasing one’s sense of control, confidence and agency in a range of settings (Kinsey et al 2021). A study of people with chronic lower back pain found significant differences before and after AT lessons in their constructs of intention, perceived risk, direct attitude and behavioral beliefs (Kamalikhah et al. 2016). Perhaps not coincidentally, the AT was influential in the creation of some forms of psychotherapy, including Gestalt therapy (Tengwall 1981).

AT lessons are commonly used as an effective intervention for reducing chronic lower back pain (Hafezi et al. 2022), as one on one lessons in the AT from registered teachers have shown long term benefits for patients with chronic back pain (Little et al. 2008). Using EMG to record muscle activity, one study found AT lessons decreased axial stiffness by 29% on average in subjects with low back pain while resisting rotation, concluding with the authors suggestion that dynamic modulation of postural tone can be enhanced through long-term training in the AT (Cacciatore et al. 2011). Participants in another study reported significantly reduced neck pain and fatigue of the superficial neck flexors during a cranio-cervical flexion test in a study that concluded group AT classes may provide a cost-effective approach to reducing neck pain (Becker 2018). There was a significant reduction in knee pain, stiffness and co-contraction recorded in a study following AT instruction in people with knee osteoarthritis; there was also an improvement in function which appeared to be maintained at 15 months post-baseline (Preece et al. 2016). A strong association was found between a course of AT instruction and increases in measures of respiratory muscular strength and endurance in healthy young and middle-aged adults (Austin, Ausubel 1992). AT lessons resulted in trends towards fewer falls and injurious falls along with improved mobility among past multiple-fallers (Gleeson 2015) and improved functional reach in older women (Dennis 1999). The AT has also been applied in cases of joint hypermobility (Bull 2015). A pilot study published in The Journal of Urology showed that an AT training program designed for laparoscopic surgeons resulted in significant improvement in posture, improved surgical ergonomics and endurance as well as decreases in surgical fatigue and the incidence of repetitive strain injury (Reddy et al. 2011).

The high prevalence of musculoskeletal issues in the general population suggests that AT lessons could be useful as an early referral option in primary healthcare (Eldred et al. 2015), however, despite the promise of the AT the philosophical systems embedded within it and the near deification of its founder has lead to resistance in the AT’s incorporation by biomedicine (Tarr 2011). While the AT community has struggled to gain mainstream medical adoption there has been strong support from members of the medical community who see the benefits of the work for their patients and themselves (Stern 2021).

AT in the performing arts

Clearly the AT has implications for movement coordination (Cacciatore et al. 2014), perhaps this is why the AT has become an integral part of curricula at elite drama and music schools including Juilliard, the Curtis Institute of Music and the Royal Academy of Music (Miller 2003). There is a particular interest in application of AT among dancers (Lewis 2006) and musicians (Korn 2014). AT principles have been applied to music pedagogy and performance by singers (Rootberg 2011, Neely 2016, Peterson 2008), harpists (Hembreiker 2010), violinists and violists (Cotik 2017 & 2019, Lacraru 2014, Austin 2014), cellists (Alcantara 1997) and bassists (Chou 2013) among many others. A recent study found that purpose-designed AT classes for music students may beneficially influence performance related pain and the associated risk factors of poor posture, excess muscle tension, stress and performance anxiety; there were also reports of improvements to instrumental technique, performance level and practice effectiveness indicating the relevance of AT training to musical skill development (Davies 2020). In another study, application of the AT to music performance showed improvement relative to controls in overall music and technical quality as judged by independent experts blind to subjects' condition assignment; there were also improvements in heart rate variance, self-rated anxiety and positive attitude to performance (Valentine et al. 1995). While more and better designed research is needed to accurately quantify the effect of the AT on artistic performance there does seem to be a general consensus among a large number of successful artists in a variety of fields that the AT has a positive overall effect on artistic life, on and off the stage (Iammatteo 1996).

AT in education

In the field of education there is a broader interest in the AT beyond arts institutions dating back to the relationship between the AT’s originator, F.M. Alexander, and American education philosophy pioneer John Dewey. Dewey, who wrote introductions to three of Alexander’s books, said that he “owed the concrete form of certain of his ideas to contact with the work of F.M. Alexander,” those ideas being his theories of mind-body, of the coordination of the elements of the self and of the place of ideas in inhibition and control of over action (McCormack 1958).

Works Cited (alphabetical by author):

Alcantara, Pedro D. Indirect Procedures: A Musician’s Guide to the Alexander Technique 1st Edition Oxford University Press April 1997 ISBN - ‎0198165692 978-0198165699

Austin, John H.M., and Pearl Ausubel. "Enhanced respiratory muscular function in normal adults after lessons in proprioceptive musculoskeletal education without exercises." Chest, vol. 102, no. 2, Aug. 1992, pp. 486+

Austin, John L. “The Shoulders: To Rest Or Not To Rest?” American Center for the Alexander Technique Sept. 2014 https://www.acatnyc.org/blog-posts/2014/09/11/the-shoulders-to-rest-or-not-to-rest

Becker, J. J., Copeland, S. L., Botterbusch, E. L., & Cohen, R. G. (2018). Preliminary evidence for feasibility, efficacy, and mechanisms of Alexander technique group classes for chronic neck pain. Complementary Therapies in Medicine, 39, 80–86. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ctim.2018.05.012

Bull, Philip The Alexander Technique Hypermobility Syndromes Association Journal Volume 3 Spring 2015

Cacciatore T.W., Gurfinkel V.S., Horak F.B., Cordo P.J., Ames K.E., Increased dynamic regulation of postural tone through Alexander Technique training, Human Movement Science, Volume 30, Issue 1, 2011, Pages 74-89, ISSN 0167-9457, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.humov.2010.10.002.

Cacciatore T.W., Gurfinkel V.S., Horak F.B. Prolonged weight-shift and altered spinal coordination during sit-to-stand in practitioners of the Alexander Technique. Gait & Posture (2011), doi:10.1016/j.gaitpost.2011.06.026

Cacciatore Timothy W., Mian Omar S., Peters Amy, and Day Brian L. Neuromechanical interference of posture on movement: evidence from Alexander technique teachers rising from a chair Journal of Neurophysiology 2014 112:3, 719-729

Chou, Yun-Chieh. “When the Mouse Meets the Elephant: A Manual for String Bass Players with Application of the Philosophy and Principles of the F. M. Alexander Technique.” 2013 DMA diss., Louisiana State University.

Cotik, T. (2019). Concepts of the Alexander Technique and Practical Ideas for Musicians. American String Teachers Association Journal, 69(2), 33–36. https://doi-org.library.esc.edu/10.1177/0003131319835543

Cotik, T. Developing a natural and relaxed approach to string playing - part 1 Strad Magazine Feb. 2017 https://www.thestrad.com/developing-a-natural-and-relaxed-approach-to-string-playing-part-1/1857.article

Davies, J Alexander Technique classes improve pain and performance factors in tertiary music students Journal of Bodywork and Movement Therapies Vol. 24 Issue 1 p.1-7 Jan 1, 2020 https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jbmt.2019.04.006

Dennis Ronald J, Functional Reach Improvement in Normal Older Women After Alexander Technique Instruction, The Journals of Gerontology: Series A, Volume 54, Issue 1, January 1999, Pages M8-M11 https://doi.org/10.1093/gerona/54.1.M8

Eldred, J., Hopton, A., Donnison, E., Woodman, J., & MacPherson, H. (2015). Teachers of the alexander technique in the UK and the people who take their lessons: A national cross-sectional survey. Complementary Therapies in Medicine, 23(3), 451-461. doi:https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ctim.2015.04.006

Gleeson, M., Sherrington, C., Lo, S., & Keay, L. (2015). Can the alexander technique improve balance and mobility in older adults with visual impairments? A randomized controlled trial. Clinical Rehabilitation, 29(3), 244-260. https://doi.org/10.1177/0269215514542636

Hembreiker, Linda-Rose. "Teaching with the Alexander Technique." American Harp Journal, winter 2010, pp. 41+.

Iammatteo, E. (1996). The alexander technique: Improving the balance. Performing Arts & Entertainment in Canada, 30(3), 37. https://www.proquest.com/scholarly-journals/alexander-technique-improving-balance/docview/224880281/se-2

Kamalikhah T., Morowatisharifabad M. Rezaei-Moghaddam F., Ghasemi M. Gholami-Fesharaki M. Goklani S. Alexander Technique Training Coupled With an Integrative Model of Behavioral Prediction in Teachers With Low Back Pain Iran Red Crescent Medical Journal 2016 Sep; 18(9): e31218. Published online 2016 Aug 9. doi: 10.5812/ircmj.31218

Kinsey D., Glover L., Wadephul F., How does the Alexander Technique lead to psychological and non-physical outcomes? A realist review, European Journal of Integrative Medicine, Volume 46, 2021, ISSN 1876-3820, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.eujim.2021.101371

Korn, H. (2014). Indirect procedures: The musician's guide to the alexander technique. The American Music Teacher, 63(5), 49-50. https://www.proquest.com/trade-journals/indirect-procedures-musicians-guide-alexander/docview/1516492602/se-2 Lacraru, Emanuela Maria, "Supporting your instrument in a body-friendly manner : a comparative approach" 2014 DMA diss., Louisiana State University. https://digitalcommons.lsu.edu/gradschool_dissertations/2829

Lewis, K. (2006, 11). Understanding alexander technique. Dance Spirit, 10, 45. https://www.proquest.com/magazines/understanding-alexander-technique/docview/209305187/se-2

Little P, Lewith G, Webley F, Evans M, Beattie A, Middleton K et al. Randomized controlled trial of Alexander technique lessons, exercise, and massage (ATEAM) for chronic and recurrent back pain British Medical Journal 2008; 337 :a884 doi:10.1136/bmj.a884

McCormack E.D., Frederick Mathias Alexander and John Dewey: A neglected Influence 1958 Doctors Thesis in Philosophy, University of Toronto https://alexandertechnique.com/articles/dewey/alexanderdewey.pdf

Mahboubeh Hafezi, Zahra Rahemi, Neda Mirbagher Ajorpaz, Fatemeh Sadat Izadi, The effect of the Alexander Technique on pain intensity in patients with chronic low back pain: A randomized controlled trial, Journal of Bodywork and Movement Therapies, Volume 29, 2022, Pages 54-59, ISSN 1360-8592, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jbmt.2021.09.025.

Miller, B. X. (2003). The actor and the alexander technique. New York Library Journal, 128(6), 68 https://www.proquest.com/trade-journals/actor-alexander-technique/docview/196816372/se-2

Neely, Dawn Wells. "Body consciousness and singers: do voice teachers use mind-body methods with students and in their own practice?" Journal of Singing, vol. 73, no. 2, Nov.-Dec. 2016, pp. 137+.

Peterson, P. H. (2008). on the Voice: Alexander Or Feldenkrais: Which Method Is Best? The Choral Journal, 48(11), 67–72. http://www.jstor.org/stable/23556912

Pramod P. Reddy, Trisha P. Reddy, Jennifer Roig-Francoli, Lois Cone, Bezalel Sivan, W. Robert DeFoor, Krishnanath Gaitonde, Paul H. Noh, The Impact of the Alexander Technique on Improving Posture and Surgical Ergonomics During Minimally Invasive Surgery: Pilot Study, The Journal of Urology, Volume 186, Issue 4, 2011, Pages 1658-1662, ISSN 0022-5347, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.juro.2011.04.013

Preece, S.J., Jones, R.K., Brown, C.A. et al. Reductions in co-contraction following neuromuscular re-education in people with knee osteoarthritis. BMC Musculoskeletal Disorders 17, 372 (2016). https://doi.org/10.1186/s12891-016-1209-2

Rootberg R. “End-gaining”and the“Means-Whereby”: Discovering the best process to achieve goals of vocal training and pedagogy using the Alexander Technique, 2011 Voice and Speech Review, 7:1, 157-163, DOI: 10.1080/23268263.2011.10739536

Stallibrass, C., Sissons, P., & Chalmers, C. (2002). Randomized controlled trial of the alexander technique for idiopathic parkinson's disease. Clinical Rehabilitation, 16(7), 695-708. doi:https://doi.org/10.1191/0269215502cr544oa

Stallibrass C. An evaluation of the Alexander Technique for the management of disability in Parkinson’s disease- a preliminary study. Clinical Rehabilitation. 1997;11(1):8-12. doi:10.1177/026921559701100103

Stern J. The Alexander Technique: Mindfulness in Movement Relieves Suffering Alternative and Complementary Therapies Volume: 27 Issue 1: February 11, 2021 10-13. http://doi.org/10.1089/act.2020.29307.jcs

Tarr, Jennifer Educating with the hands: working on the body/self in Alexander Technique Sociology of Health & Illness Vol. 33 No. 2 2011 ISSN 0141–9889, pp. 252–265doi: 10.1111/j.1467-9566.2010.01283.x

Tengwall, Roger A note on the influence of F. M. Alexander on the development of gestalt therapy Journal of the History of the Behavioral Sciences volume 17 issue 1 1981 https://doi.org/10.1002/1520-6696(198101)17:1<126::AID-JHBS2300170113>3.0.CO;2-X

Valentine, E. R., Fitzgerald, D. F. P., Gorton, T. L., Hudson, J. A., & Symonds, E. R. C. (1995). The Effect of Lessons in the Alexander Technique on Music Performance in High and Low Stress Situations. Psychology of Music, 23(2), 129–141. https://doi.org/10.1177/0305735695232002

Williams, Angela The Alexander Technique, Complementary and Alternative Medicine Sourcebook, 6th Edition July 2018 978-0-7808-1632-9 pages 439-441

Woods C., Glover L., Woodman J. An Education for Life: The Process of Learning the Alexander Technique Kinesiology Review Volume 9: Issue 3 14 Aug 2020 https://doi.org/10.1123/kr.2020-0020

Woodman, J. P. Moore, N. R. Evidence for the effectiveness of Alexander Technique lessons in medical and health-related conditions: a systematic review 2012 - International Journal of Clinical Practice VL - 66 IS - 1 SN - 1368-5031 UR - https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1742-1241.2011.02817.x 68.129.197.221 (talk) 14:54, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

Nah, what we have already is easily read, that's just an unformatted wall of text that you appear to have copied from somewhere. You should read WP:COPYVIO, which explains why you shouldn't do that. - Roxy the dog 15:08, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

I am the author of the above material with all credit given to cited sources. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 15:59, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

This really got us off on the wrong foot Roxy, I spent a lot of time writing and citing those works for you to disregard them so flippantly. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 15:38, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

(talk) 15:26, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

What personal interest do you have in highlighting critisism of AT, conflict of interest with Feldenkrais perhaps? That's what it looks like based on your edit history 68.129.197.221 (talk) 15:29, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

The current wiki contains outdated and/or incorrect information

Please WP:FOC, otherwise it's likely you will get the ban you're asking to be placed on others.

Respect other editors and their work.

Work in small edits (or edit requests), making sure to point out applicable policy and reliable sources supporting the edits. --Hipal (talk) 16:49, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

I am new to wiki but that is because there is a clear malicious bias against supportive material. I have watched this page as an observer for a long time and only negative news is put here; I have listed a large number of good sources hopefully an admin or other editors can straighten it out because I don't have any experience editing these pages which is why I posted here in the discussion instead of directly editing the article. Thanks. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 17:24, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

"I am new to wiki" - "I don't have any experience editing these pages" - I have been editing Wikipedia for years and still don't think I have the arrogance to post a wall of text like this and tell other more experienced editors "This page is awful and doesn't represent the AT correctly at all as well as relying too heavily on bad sources." It's not about code, it's about understanding what sources can be used and what can not. You can learn how to understand the difference. You probably should start on a page that you don't have an interest in first. Sgerbic (talk) 19:17, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

"I don't have any experience editing these pages" that is why I am appealing for help from other editors rather than directly editing the wiki. I understand what sources can be used which is why I was careful to only cite legitimate sources from peer-reviewed journals when making any health claims about the AT. Do you have any input about the suggested edits? I am an expert in multiple modalities of mind-body medicine and I know for a fact (as is evidenced by my suggested edits) this page has been edited with malicious bais and therefore needs an update because it paints a completely inaccurate picture of the subject matter; I am not an expert in wiki editorial procedure so I leave it to the admins to sort out any malicious bias from editors. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 02:26, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

I've tried to edit the page myself but it just gets completely rejected even though sources are good... 68.129.197.221 (talk) 05:06, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

I made a number of small edits and they were recalled in mass. At least read what was changed before reverting. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 05:11, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

not sure why this got restored, something funky going on with editors* - 68.129.197.221 (talk) 15:29, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

Apologies for getting excited roxy, I see you are just a skeptic fine; but please help work in some of these edits. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 15:28, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Misrepresenting the Alexander technique

Latest comment: 2 years ago37 comments5 people in discussion

I am very concerned that after reading the article on the Alexander technique it is being misunderstood and misrepresented. I read some of the arguments put forward by someone on this discussion page who sounded well informed on this subject being prevented from editing this article by people who sound uninformed but determined to control this page at any cost. Philip6061 (talk) 18:53, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Do you have any reliable sources, which is what we build our articles on, that support your point? Sources must meet WP:RS and WP:MEDRS for biomedical information? -Roxy the grumpy dog. wooF 19:11, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

I have attached please of sources, please don't ignore them admins. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 02:30, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

I have tried to make the appropriate changes (anyone involved in AT knows it's not a therapy at all) editors don't seems to care. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 05:00, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Your question is about sources. So I read your first paragraph that claims the Alexander technique is about posture. The source that can show you that this is false is every book written by FM Alexander himself. Posture is a fixed idea. The technique is about balance, breathing, and in the words of Walter Carrington it is about poise. Poise is not posture. Poise is not a fixed shape or position like posture. Philip6061 (talk) 22:32, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

You talk about sources but there are sources that are either plain wrong or who are wrong about the technique or who the writer of this wiki page can’t understand. Moving on to paragraph number 2. You talk about his method in the 1890’s. This so called method was not something you do because it was and still is about non doing. Is that paradoxical. Yes it is. Like everything about the technique. It still is years ahead of its time and you don’t get this. It is wholism and he said you can’t separate the mind and the body in an action. That’s in a book called the use of the self by fm Alexander that I don’t have to check as a source. I have experienced lessons and read all his books many times and you haven’t done either. You quote people about something and you don’t understand what are writing about. You think you win arguments by quoting sources but you are in fact undermining the legacy and thought of someone who has left behind important knowledge. You think the use of the self that is about non doing and poise is about a technique and method of doing something about posture. It’s not . It’s mind and body and balance and breathing and awareness and poise and thinking in activity in activity. But you don’t do any thing and that’s a paradox that you don’t understand. That’s paragraph 2. Philip6061 (talk) 23:02, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

You want sources about a biological medical model. You have got to be kidding me! If this technique does not fit what doctors already can find in their textbooks then for you it’s irrelevant. The whole point of this wholistic technique is that it does not separate mind and body. That’s just about as different from the medical scientific view as you can get. There was a long list of doctors who in spite of their training in medicine were broad minded enough to let Alexander cure patients of breathing illnesses. The technique is something you experience and learn about from a teacher. It is knowledge anyone can benefit from. This article you wrote would gain credibility if you considered the shortcomings of viewing the world through your medical scientific perspective. Philip6061 (talk) 23:15, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

A systems thinking view of the world would allow you to see why one perspective misses the connections between one thing and another. In the words of Gregory Bateson the anthropologist their are patterns that connect. We ignore these patterns at our own peril. Philip6061 (talk) 23:22, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Here we go . Your 3rd paragraph. I am not a teacher or a proponent of the Alexander technique. Philip6061 (talk) 23:25, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

I am a pupil of a variety of Alexander teachers. I have had about 80 lessons over the whole of my life. I love reading Alexander technique books by fm Alexander. I enjoy the complexity and mysterious qualities in his writing. I would like to dig deeper into how he developed his ideas . In short I am fascinated by this whole subject and I want nothing more than to be proved mistaken and think I have spent years of my life thinking in the wrong way . I would be delighted to fail and learn and make just a little more progress. There is nothing in your article that helps me to find out one tiny thing about the Alexander technique as an area of study. That’s because all you care about is the technique of using the biomedical model as a way of disproving something of which you are in my view entirely ignorant. Your article is a disgrace . Your motive is to just say the whole thing is false because Aetna will not include it in their insurance policies. How does that prove anything. Have you heard of critical thinking? Just because an organisation is not interested in something that doesn’t prove anything. The nhs study you mentioned said the Alexander technique was good for preventing back ache. That’s a significant fact you ignore when you think about how many hours of work are lost to backache. One of the worlds greatest philosophers John Dewey defended the Alexander technique and wrote prefaces to his books and said the technique was based on science and scientific principles and he explains what science is and how you can prove things scientifically and how the technique is abiding by those principles. Perhaps he was even a little biased though because Alexander cured John Dewey’s backache. During Alexander’s lifetime he was sued in a court case in South Africa by someone who was refused lessons. Alexander won in the trial. Dr Wilred Barlow testified for Alexander. Dr Wilfred Barlow has written books about the Alexander principle. He was trained as an Alexander practitioner. He writes beautifully about the many areas of life where the technique can help people in general or patients in hospitals when the current treatments provided by the nhs can’t help them. Philip6061 (talk) 23:53, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes, but do you have any sources? We are not going to change the article because a stranger on the internetz says we should. - Roxy the grumpy dog. wooF 23:57, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

So Phillip6061 - thanks for the instruction on AT but that isn't how Wikipedia pages are built. We use notable secondary sources, we aren't allowed to inject our opinion. We can't take a class on AT and then use it in the article. We can't rely on someone who says they have knowledge to tell the editors what to write. Sgerbic (talk) 23:59, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Can I please get some help incorporating what is possible in my contributions please, are there any editors that want to take the source lists I've provided and sift through what is acceptable for wiki because I don't know what more you want 68.129.197.221 (talk) 05:50, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

I barely found this comment, only because I just happened to be looking at this page. You are responding to a comment from June when there are more current discussions. You have given us a wall-of-text and I have no idea why that other section just became a solid wall of text. You have been repeatably instructed on what you can do and you keep ignoring us. From the random citations I looked at you gave, one was a dead link, many others go to journal articles behind paywalls. And the rest go to print books/articles. We keep telling you, Wikipedia editors DO NOT do research. We are NOT allowed to look at journal articles and interpret what is said in them. We have to wait until notable secondary sources come out that discuss the journal articles you cite. Your insistence on forcing changes to this specific Wikipedia page and no other edits to any other Wikipedia page are suspect. Why do you have all these journal articles, and print sources at your fingertips? Why the emotion? The more you try to ram the changes though, the less likely anyone is going to try to help. Sgerbic (talk) 06:00, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

I am in school and writing a paper on the AT bro, I came upon this wiki and it was straight up polar opposite from just about every other source I've read; why such resistance in changing the non-medical sections of the wiki? 68.129.197.221 (talk) 16:00, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

You heard of this thing called the library? I put the title of the research in the search bar and boom I can read them no pay wall. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 16:03, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Btw if editors took the time to read the first thing about AT they would know the medical use is not the primary use and shouldn't take up the majority of the body of the wiki... Its and education method mostly taught at Uni or privately to performers... 68.129.197.221 (talk) 16:05, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

I recently read a book about breathing that states that thousands of years ago the books of the Tao included information on breathing as a way to improve health . The author mentions that western science has dropped this knowledge as it is not scientific only perhaps to be rediscovering it all over again. Alexander was well known on the London stage in Edwardian times as the breathing man. He gave lessons to many performers and was also known as the saviour of the London theatre. Those performers didn’t care what anyone else thought about finding a source to check if the Alexander technique was confirmed as allowable inside the narrow paradigm of the bio medical scientific world. They were great full to experience poise and balance and centred breathing and an experience of feeling good about being alive and calm in their performances. Philip6061 (talk) 00:07, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes, but do you have any sources? - Roxy the grumpy dog. wooF 00:10, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

You are absolutely not in any sense capable of choosing notable secondary sources on this subject. You don’t understand this subject. I have no confidence that you ever will. You sound impervious to any interference with your ignorance Philip6061 (talk) 00:10, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

You are not interested in even knowing anything about this subject Philip6061 (talk) 00:11, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

We build our articles based on what reliable sources WP:RS say. Do you have any? - Roxy the grumpy dog. wooF 00:12, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

I could quote you sources but you are only interested in the Wikipedia source structure technique. I did not write anything here for you. I wrote this just in case a curious person who has heard there might be something in the technique and after reading your unfair , and tone deaf article might at least think for a second that this article you wrote might be false. And it is. Dont ask me for sources. Take my word for it you are wasting your time writing on this subject because you are ignorant and just saying the word sources over and over again like a fool. You should think about your errors first not my sources . Philip6061 (talk) 00:17, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Meh - Roxy the grumpy dog. wooF 00:20, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Look at your article where you are using sources and then look at what you are writing. Whether I am a random person or not you need to notice that what you are writing is unjustified and is just your opinion. Your use of sources is amateurish . You call youself grumpy dog as if it sounds clever to reply to everything as if you are some kind of critical thinker like Davi Hume. You are about as clever as a grumpy dog . That name is not shorthand for a smart and intelligent person maintaining high standards but a fake news merchant of the worst kind. Your article is wrong even if you are conceited enough to think you are doing something of value. Yours is the worst article on Wikipedia and you are questioning me about my sources like you are an expert . You are giving Wikipedia a bad name for standards. You are not upholding any standards. You are lying to the general public who read your fake news . You come on assertively as if you need to check who I am but you have no self awareness of your own shortcomings, incompetence, stupidity, ignorance, and failure to investigate what is plainly wrong about what you have written. Philip6061 (talk) 00:33, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

I haven't written anything in this article that I can remember. There is a huge welcome message on your talk page. It gives great advice to new editors. You should read it. - Roxy the grumpy dog. wooF 00:47, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

You are a bot. I just realised you are an AI bit. No human could have no self awareness and no ability to reflect. You had me there for s minute because I thought I was arguing with someone . I can see why an algorithm would have no interest in human well being and health. Here is a question. Could you define a notable secondary source? For example I mentioned in passing one of the worlds greatest ever philosophers. Could you respond as to whether or not John Dewey is a notable secondary source. Or is it that your notable secondary sources must have no knowledge or experience of the Alexander technique. Are these people notable for what? Opposition to the technique. For being good at football? I noticed you quoted Aetna as having no interest in the Alexander technique. As a notable secondary source had they ever heard of the technique? Do you choose secondary sources as being notable for having the same views as you do? I think you are very comfortable with your notable secondary sources. They help you to build a very convenient argument Philip6061 (talk) 00:47, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

I showed you links to wikipedia's definition of reliable sources and medically reliable sources in my first response to you in this section. - Roxy the grumpy dog. wooF 00:50, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

See rewrite section for sources, stop your biased edits on this wiki 68.129.197.221 (talk) 17:05, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

You say you aren’t allowed to inject your opinion in Wikipedia.? That’s what this article about the Alexander technique is doing. Non notable secondary sources are quoted followed up with someone’s opinion. And it’s all wrong. I haven’t got past paragraph three yet. So you are telling me that if I study more about how Wikipedia works you will let me get away with the nonsense written about the Alexander technique on wikipedia Philip6061 (talk) 00:55, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia is just a summary of accepted knowledge as published in reliable sources (generally high-quality, secondary sources independent of the subject). If those sources are "wrong" then Wikipedia will be "wrong" in lock-step with them. Editors cannot inject their own perceptions into articles even if they are "right". A moment's though will tell you why. If there are good sources we ain't using, what are they? Alexbrn (talk) 03:21, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

I have just removed a huge chunk of text as it appears to be a direct copy of text from elsewhere. It remains in the edit history as I write this, but whether an Admin might revdel it would be another thing. - Roxy the dog 14:48, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

Admins please ban Roxy the dog from this wiki; he is clearly biased against the AT as he disregards posts with sources 68.129.197.221 (talk) 15:43, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

It was from my desktop where I prepared the draft to fix some of what you've done to this page roxy 68.129.197.221 (talk) 15:44, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

Hey I was attempting to respond to 68 and everything just went wonky. Technical term, wonky. Weird. Anyway, what I was writing so beyond eloquent and would have been too earth-shattering so I'll just keep it to myself and you all can imagine it. Sgerbic (talk) 05:42, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm wondering if any editors are willing to do something besides troll? The AT is clearly miscateogized as an alternative medicine, see below.

The Select Committee on Science and Technology of the House of Lords included 44 recommendations in its comprehensive report on “Complementary and Alternative Medicine” (CAM) released in November. Many of the recommendations refer to a classification scheme used in the report to organize therapies into three groups.

Group 1, called “Professionally Organised Alternative Therapies” contains acupuncture, chiropractic, herbal medicine, homeopathy, and osteopathy. The Lords report says: “Each of these therapies claims to have an individual diagnostic approach and are seen as the ‘Big 5’ by most of the CAM world.”

Group 2, called “Complementary Therapies” contains Alexander technique, aromatherapy, Bach and other flower remedies, body work therapies including massage, counselling stress therapy, hypnotherapy, meditation, reflexology, Shiatsu, spiritual healing, Maharishi Ayurvedic Medicine, nutritional medicine, and Yoga. Therapies in this group “are most often used to complement conventional medicine and do not purport to embrace diagnostic skills.” 68.129.197.221 (talk) 12:43, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

AT better categorized as a complementary therapy not alternative medicine 68.129.197.221 (talk) 17:49, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Complete Guide to Complementary Therapies in Cancer Care, pp. 155-159 (2011)No Access

https://www.worldscientific.com/doi/10.1142/9789814335669_0023

https://scoliosisclinic.co.uk/blog/complementary-therapies-and-scoliosis/

https://wp.stolaf.edu/musician-health/complementary-practices/ 68.129.197.221 (talk) 17:46, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

https://alexandertechnique.co.uk/public/document/registering-complementary-natural-healthcare-council

https://nass.co.uk/managing-my-as/exercise/complementary-therapies/ 68.129.197.221 (talk) 18:53, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Miscategorization of the AT

Latest comment: 2 years ago18 comments2 people in discussion

AT is NOT an alternative medicine; it is classified under “Complementary Therapies” by the Select Committee on Science and Technology of the House of Lords (AT is primarily practiced in the UK); that category contains Alexander technique, aromatherapy, Bach and other flower remedies, body work therapies including massage, counselling stress therapy, hypnotherapy, meditation, reflexology, Shiatsu, spiritual healing, Maharishi Ayurvedic Medicine, nutritional medicine, and Yoga. "Therapies in this group are most often used to complement conventional medicine and do not purport to embrace diagnostic skills.”

AT better categorized as a complementary therapy not alternative medicine 68.129.197.221 (talk) 17:49, 13 October 2022 (UTC) The Complete Guide to Complementary Therapies in Cancer Care, pp. 155-159 (2011)No Access https://www.worldscientific.com/doi/10.1142/9789814335669_0023 https://scoliosisclinic.co.uk/blog/complementary-therapies-and-scoliosis/ https://wp.stolaf.edu/musician-health/complementary-practices/ 68.129.197.221 (talk) 17:46, 13 October 2022 (UTC) https://alexandertechnique.co.uk/public/document/registering-complementary-natural-healthcare-council https://nass.co.uk/managing-my-as/exercise/complementary-therapies/

No AT teacher or student would classify AT as alternative medicine this is a simple case of miscategorization. AT should be labeled complementary not alternative. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 12:24, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

No reliable source supporting this statement. - Roxy the dog 13:41, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Reliable source supports the statement AT is an alternative medicine? 68.129.197.221 (talk) 14:01, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Indeed. -Roxy the dog 14:08, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm asking for a source that AT is an alternative medicine? Can you provide one? 68.129.197.221 (talk) 14:37, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

There are two provided in that sentence. read them. - Roxy the dog 14:42, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm not seeing them. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 14:44, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

They are there, that you cannot see them isn't my problem to fix. WP:CIR applies to many aspects of competence. - Roxy the dog 14:58, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

You hide behind WP:CIR yet don't actually provide any sources... bias. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 15:24, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Well? 68.129.197.221 (talk) 18:31, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

I still don't see what you are talking about, provide URLs please. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 14:38, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

AT better categorized as a complementary therapy not alternative medicine 68.129.197.221 (talk) 17:49, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

The Complete Guide to Complementary Therapies in Cancer Care, pp. 155-159 (2011)No Access

https://www.worldscientific.com/doi/10.1142/9789814335669_0023

https://scoliosisclinic.co.uk/blog/complementary-therapies-and-scoliosis/

https://wp.stolaf.edu/musician-health/complementary-practices/ 68.129.197.221 (talk) 17:46, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

https://alexandertechnique.co.uk/public/document/registering-complementary-natural-healthcare-council

https://nass.co.uk/managing-my-as/exercise/complementary-therapies/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.129.197.221 (talk) 17:48, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

See newest section for supporting evidence. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 14:32, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Note: related to this topic user Hipal is responsible for the Miscategorization

23:11, 26 January 2021‎ Hipal talk contribs‎ 21,339 bytes +191‎ →‎Why isn't alternative medicine mentioned in lede?: look at the refs undo 68.129.197.221 (talk) 15:22, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Might be* 68.129.197.221 (talk) 15:44, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Incorrect uncited statement

Latest comment: 2 years ago11 comments2 people in discussion

There is a blatantly incorrect statement that is not cited in the uses section that musicians teach AT; AT teachers with 3 year 1600 hour training teach AT lessons at universities, not untrained musicians. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 14:29, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

There are three citations in that section. It appears to be sourced. -Roxy the dog 14:38, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

There is not or it's not relevant. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 14:44, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

If you don't want to help perhaps you can find another wiki so another editor can work in good faith on this one. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 14:45, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Apologies double posting this point, the section disappeared and I assumed Roxy is deleting things willy nilly again 68.129.197.221 (talk) 14:46, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

I have not deleted anything, just restored parts of the page that you removed or altered. -Roxy the dog 14:49, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

You still haven't fixed the problem after being provided sources. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 15:27, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

... funny that. You haven't even defined a problem based on our Policies. - Roxy the dog 15:50, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Are false statements defined as a problem? Do you really need to be so obstructive? 68.129.197.221 (talk) 16:26, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

By the way I found the source you said seems legit... see the bottom section of talk. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 16:27, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Info in the wiki contradicts itself, it's exactly how I say in another sourced part of the wiki Roxy

"To qualify as a teacher of the Alexander Technique, instructors are required to complete 1,600 hours of supervised teacher training, spanning three years. The result must be satisfactory to qualified peers to gain membership in professional societies." 68.129.197.221 (talk) 21:15, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Quackery Libel Lawsuit

Latest comment: 2 years ago13 comments2 people in discussion

The South African government journal of physical education, Manpower, published a 44-page long editorial in March 1944 titled, ‘Quackery versus Physical Education,’ which was a scathing attack on Alexander and his technique. Alexander asked for the article to be withdrawn but, when this was refused, he sued for defamation and damages for £5,000 in 1945. Their attack on the theory of the Technique was ostensibly based on their knowledge of Alexander’s books, but with one exception, none of them had read Alexander’s books. In effect this limited their testimony to an evaluation of Alexander’s physiological and medical arguments.

The judge found that the defendants misrepresented Alexander and his work, saying the defendants had "called him much more of a quack than they were entitled to do" and adding, "they have failed in my view to prove that the system cannot bring about the results which it does claim in the improvement of health and the prevention of disease, and again they have made matters worse by overstating the claims made for the system." Alexander was found to be a quack "in the sense that he makes ignorant pretense to medical skill" but this was not found to be criminal. The defendants appealed but the judgment was upheld in June 1949.

Although Alexander had won, the award of £1,000 did not cover his costs, and it had caused him considerable work and stress. Some have argued it may have precipitated his stroke in December 1947. The case also also caused various endeavors, which had begun in 1944 and 1945, to be sidelined including the formation of a society for teachers.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/25362964 Judgment ‘Alexander versus Jokl and Others,’ Supreme Court of South Africa, given by Justice Clayden, 19 April 1948. Rand Daily Mail and The Star, articles 16–21 February, 23–26 February, 3 March 1948, and 4 June 1949. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 15:15, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

If there's no explanation on how this is relevant to the article, I'll remove it again. --Hipal (talk) 16:57, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

It is relevant both to the history of AT and the continuing history of accusations of quackery directed towards the AT (which is already a topic in the wiki but focuses on events after Alexander's death to do with insurance.) Perhaps you could move all of these into a criticisms/accusations of quackery to improve the overall form and content of the wiki. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 17:18, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Perhaps the last paragraph is not necessary but I thought it was relevant. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 17:21, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

It's not about the history of AT, it's one point in it's history. Why does anyone care at this date? --Hipal (talk) 17:23, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Provides evidence of early skepticism that continues to be a theme for the AT as evidenced by that content already being present in the wiki, also relevant to to several aspects of AT including history of medical reception/perception and the case essentially halted development of the AT for several years as Alexander and proponents in the medical field (such as Dr. Wilfred Barlow) consumed by this case.

Overall this section provides more context to longview of the AT's relationship with medicine/quackery accusations. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 17:41, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Good points. Without additional references, it might deserve to be used to verify a footnote or short sentence. --Hipal (talk) 17:47, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Judgment ‘Alexander versus Jokl and Others,’ Supreme Court of South Africa, given by Justice Clayden, 19 April 1948. https://www.jstor.org/stable/25362964

Rand Daily Mail and The Star, articles 16–21 February, 23–26 February, 3 March 1948, and 4 June 1949.

‘Libel action by Mr Matthias Alexander’ by ‘Our Medico-Legal Correspondent’ in British Medical Journal, March 20, 1948, p. 575-577 (Part One), and British Medical Journal, 8 May 1948, pp. 909-910 (Part Two).

‘A Review of the Case of Alexander vs. Cluver, Jokl & Clarke’ by Norwood Coaker, K.C., in The Commercial Law Reporter, November 1949, pp. 650-62.

‘Libel action by Mr Matthias Alexander’ in the British Medical Journal, 10 December 1949, p. 1359.

‘Libel action by Mr Matthias Alexander’, by Dr Wilfred Barlow and Dr Dorothy Morrison in the British Medical Journal, 4 February 1950, pp. 309-10. Also in Postural Homeostasis by Wilfred Barlow (Mouritz, 2014), pp. 58–59.

‘The Alexander libel action’ by Dr Wilfred Barlow in The Lancet vol. 256, issue 6618, 1 July 1950, pp. 26-30. Also in Postural Homeostasis by Wilfred Barlow (Mouritz, 2014), pp. 61–72.

‘The South African legal action’ by Dr Wilfred Barlow in More Talk of Alexander edited by Dr Wilfred Barlow (Mouritz, 2005 [1978]), pp. 315–25.

F. M. the Life of Frederick Matthias Alexander by Michael Bloch (Little Brown, 2004), pp. 197–228.

Irene Tasker – Her Life and Work with the Alexander Technique by Regina Stratil (Mouritz, 2020).

South African Libel Case 1948 Vols. 1–4 edited by Jean M. O. Fischer (Mouritz, 2016). 68.129.197.221 (talk) 17:57, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Do you understand [1]? --Hipal (talk) 18:05, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Haha, ironically, I already trimmed the source list quite a bit. Apologies. I am trying to give ample sources and not always sure which ones so yes I tend to go for the everything related list. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 18:10, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

I've no interest in going through yet another long list of references provided without any context. You might want to describe who each author is, summarize each reference, and summarize or quote portions from the potential ref that are relevant to this article. --Hipal (talk) 18:15, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for finally spelling that out, the total account of the case is in the jstor linked 1st citation in the list.

Rand Daily Mail and The Star, articles 16–21 February, 23–26 February, 3 March 1948, and 4 June 1949. Are local newspapers covering the case

“Libel Action By Mr. Matthias Alexander.” The British Medical Journal, vol. 2, no. 4640, 1949, pp. 1359–1359. JSTOR, http://www.jstor.org/stable/25374470. Accessed 17 Oct. 2022.

An article in BMJ about the case 68.129.197.221 (talk) 18:20, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Dr. Barlow lead the case in favor of Alexander, his account of the details around the case is summarized I have already written.

‘The Alexander libel action’ by Dr Wilfred Barlow in The Lancet vol. 256, issue 6618, 1 July 1950, pp. 26-30. Also in Postural Homeostasis by Wilfred Barlow (Mouritz, 2014), pp. 61–72.

‘The South African legal action’ by Dr Wilfred Barlow in More Talk of Alexander edited by Dr Wilfred Barlow (Mouritz, 2005 [1978]), pp. 315–25. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 18:25, 17 October 2022 (UTC)