Talk:Alfred Butt

== Parentage and education ==

The ODNB says Butt "was born on 20 March 1878, the only son of Frederick Butt, a builder. He was educated at Westminster School and, after leaving school, worked in the accounting department at Harrods as a clerk on a salary of 15s. per week.", but our article says he was "the son of solicitor Alfred Beyfus whose forebears had migrated from Hamburg to Glasgow and London, and educated at Emanuel School before entering employment in the counting-house of Harrod's department store". At least one of these must be wrong. DuncanHill (talk) 00:54, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

I looked in at this page to say exactly the same thing (exactly a year later, by pleasingly symmetrical coincidence). The main editor appears to have been Lozleader, who may possibly be able to throw some light on this mystery. Tim riley talk 10:45, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Nope, not me. My last edit [1] was on 1 June 2009 (when I was so much younger) and the text read: Alfred was born in London, and was the only son of Frederick Butt, a builder. He was educated at the Westminster School before entering employment as a clerk at Harrod's Department Store. it had two references, ODNB and the obit in The Times. Lozleader (talk) 16:22, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

This stuff was introduced into the article on 4 August 2014 [2] by User:Hwyndham. Lozleader (talk) 16:28, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

The author of Alhambra Glasgow, published in 2011, Graeme Smith, who is a researcher in the life and times of Sir Alfred Butt, and Simone Beyfus, active in Jewish Archives in Australia, and a historian of the Beyfus families in Australia, London and elsewhere, are aware that Alfred Butt was not a son of a builder called Butt. It may be that his natural mother, one of the maids in the Beyfus household, was a daughter of such a person. No doubt the ODNB and its repetitors were content to be provided with a suitable phrase as suited the mores of the time, and Mr Alfred Beyfus's later lawful wife. Butt was brought up as an integral member of the Beyfus family, including schooling and in apprenticeship in Harrods where his uncle Edgar Israel Cohen was a director of that company. He then followed his natural father Alfred Beyfus in the control and expansion of major theatres. One of his aunts, Gertrude Beyfus, married a partner in the fruit broking empire of Simons, Jacob & Co of Glasgow, London, Spain and New York. The Simons and Beyfus circles were very active in the expansion of leading theatres of the time, and enjoyed royal patronage, with Alfred Butt following suit. Alfred Butt moved easily with his kin in the worlds of theatre, politics, international finance and racing. Hwyndham (talk) 20:11, 13 August 2020 (UTC)