Talk:Alfredo Simón

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Favonian (talk) 20:56, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

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Alfredo Simón → Alfredo Simon – Reason: His name is pronounced in the American/English manner with no emphasis on the "o" in Simon. Therefore the article on Simon should be titled "Alfredo Simon". However, Alfredo Simon redirects to Alfredo Simón. That is why I need assistance for making this move.‎BeenChanged (talk • contribs) 20:56, 12 April 2012 (UTC) orig. timestamp 20:28, 12 April 2012‎ (UTC)

Do Youtubes and so on really call him "Alfredo SIGH-mon" not "Alfredo see-MOHN"? In ictu oculi (talk) 04:07, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

No. I checked 2 news channel Youtubes and they both pronounced his name correctly. So the information in the proposal is incorrect. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:04, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

• Unfortunately, I don't think the addition or removal of diacritics can be categorised as "uncontroversial" in the present climate. IMO, this needs to go to a full discussion. Jenks24 (talk) 20:38, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
• Moved from WP:RM#Contested technical requests. Favonian (talk) 20:56, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
• Can you present any evidence that he doesn't use the accent mark? Or someone opposed to the move present evidence that he does? – Muboshgu (talk) 18:17, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
  • What he uses is irrelevant. What WP:RS use (you know, the one's that establish his notability for us to even have an article about him) to refer to him is what matters. --Born2cycle (talk) 01:30, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose - sorry, but until he takes US citizenship he is still Alfredo Simón, he is still Dominican, and his main notability outside baseball (regrettably) relates to the incident in Luperón, Puerto Plata, also outside USA. As Jenks alludes to above there is an ongoing tension between "sports sources" and encyclopedic style (cf. Chicago Manual of Style etc.) on Wikipedia, but generally with BLPs, BLPs respect the nationality of living subjects, as illustrated by WP:UE and WP:OPENPARA. Note also that the assumption that Spanish diacritics can't be used of sportspeople if they get a green card to play in America isn't so true today - see [the unfortunate Fox News story which is titled "Alfredo Simón, Baltimore Orioles Reliever.." and text has "1 Feb 2011 – Baltimore Orioles pitcher Alfredo Simón, right, here being ejected in a game in September, was ..." so really the normal WP:BLP demand for accuracy trumps the fact that US sports websites don't usually respect Spanish names. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:16, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Also there's a WP:CONSISTENCY issue. To strip Alfredo Simón of his acento gráfico you'd have to go to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dominican Republic and notify the project of the removal of accents from 500+ BLPs in Category:Major League Baseball players from the Dominican Republic because they entered USA. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:22, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Indeed. If the practice is usage that contradicts usage in WP:RS, that practice needs to change. --Born2cycle (talk) 01:28, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

If it did, but it doesn't. Please see the article which already has WP:RS which document the spelling and the lede line already reflects the correct spelling, as does the title. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:02, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose -- names should be spelt with their correct diacriticals, but it is useful for the unaccented version to exist as a redirect. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:47, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
• Support -- I could not find a single English WP:RS that used diacritics when referring to him (e.g., the NY Times). We should follow usage in reliable sources, not invent a "right" way that contradicts usage in English reliable sources. --Born2cycle (talk) 01:26, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

There are 2 Fox News sources above which do spell his name accurately. You have linked an Associated Press newswire. AP Newswires don't carry anything except bare keyboard letters http://styleguide.yahoo.com/resources/web-editors-toolbox/differences-between-yahoo-style-guide-and-associated-press-stylebook Note not even "tilde (~), asterisk (*), at sign (@), brackets ([ and ]), bullet (•), equal sign (=) , percent sign (%), and pound or number sign (#) should not be used." an AP newswire with a restricted keyboard isn't a RS on spelling. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:05, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Move to regard Born2cycle as unqualified to comment on RMs involving typography, since he has declared his extreme prejudice against, and ignorance of, the value of typographical correctness here. Dicklyon (talk) 18:57, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Careful using the word "move" in a RM. :P – Muboshgu (talk) 20:02, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Just cause he does like dashes does not make him unqualified to comment on these issues. Thats a matter of personal preference. Spanneraol (talk) 20:09, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Not to mention that comment came a year ago. There's a statute of limitations for everything. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:53, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose I see no compelling evidence that the unaccented version is correct, as English language RS's don't always use them, as In ictu oculi demonstrated. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:02, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.