Talk:Algerian Arabic

Amazigh and Arabic

Amazigh language of Algeria is completely different then Arabic. Yet research into 1)historical amazigh language & 2)modern amazigh language, has shown some intermixing of Arabic into Amazigh. Also some Amazigh words are used by Arabs of Algeria. So to say Berber language is not related at all is hard to say. Berber & Arabic are both part of the Hamito-Semitic branch or Afro-Asiatic branch. Prof. Karl Prasse, for instance, regards Amazigh (Berber) language as "a sister language of Semitic in general". Also, the ancient Berber written language is related to semitic written language. So the statement 'unrelated' is not for sure and is removed.

so many inaccuracies

• Algerian Arabic

Scientifically speaking, there is no Algerian Arabic; there are arabic dialects spoken in Algeria, and those differ one from the other in terms of pronunciation and vocabulary well enough to be considered as separate dialects, some of them are shared with Tunisia and Morocco.

• Berber influence

Berber ifluence is way too much exaggerated. Let's start with the profusion of Berber loan-words. In fact, apart from less than a handful of Berber words, there are no berber words at al in most of the arabic dialects spoken in algeria. As to pronunciation, berber and arabic dialects sound completely different. A berber-native speaker speaking an arabic dialect is easily distinguished. Furthermore, varieties of berber sound very strange to arabic speakers. One of the most notable features of Algerian Arabic is the collapse of short vowels where is the collapse of short vowels in words such as

1. imam إمام
2. warda وَردة
3. fum فُم
4. el bria البرِية

It must be noted that the reduction of the number of short vowels specially in the middle of words is a feature shared by all arabic dialects, maghribine and middle eastern, and this is absolutely not due to Berber influence.

in most other Arabic dialects (but, again, similar to Berber), non-emphatic /r/ and emphatic /rˁ/ are two entirely separate phonemes

This is a feature of standard arabic, and should be related to it not to berber which was influenced by arabic not the other way round .. examples of standard arabic/ algerian arabic dialects

1. arraml الرَّمل in algerin arabic dialects arramlah الرّملة
2. farid فريد in alg arabic dialects the same

this differentiation is called

1. الترقيق /literally softening/ and
2. التفخيم / literally roughening, in Standard Arabic, if you're acquainted with it.

• grammar
  • broken plural

Contrary to Classical Arabic, Algierian arabic uses almost exclusively the broken plural for the masculine:

this is utterly false, algerian arabic dialects use the regular form of the plural as well, which like all other arabic dialects is formed with suffix in examples

1. el mumnin المومنين
2. 3alkin عاقلين
3. keddhabin كذابين
4. kawyin قاويين
5. machyin ماشيين

and so on it must be noted that suffix un used for plural when the noun is a subject is dropped in all arabic dialects, with no exception. Algerian arabic dialects, as all other arabic dialects, use the broken plural for words which have only broken plural form in Standard arabic kitab كتاب has no regular plural form in SA, and the plural is كتب and such is the case with رجل radjul/ pl ridjal in SA. I must also note that that the number of nouns having boken plural form in SA is fairly larger than the number of nouns having regular form.

• • articles

articles, pronunciation of the definite article el ال follows the same rule as SA, a ruled dubbed as

1. الأحرف الشمسية literally, pronounced as the word الشمس ash shams, sun / assimilation
2. الأحرف القمرية literally, pronounced as the word القمر el qamar, moon/ not assimilated

• • negation

negation is the same as other arabic dialects esp egyptian in combining between ما ma and the sh sound at the end, unlike Levantine dialects, for example, that use only ma. it must be noted that in most of the algerian arabic dialects, sh isn't used in the negation of two verbs example, ما جا ما راح ma dja ma rah , he neither came nor did he go

• • verb derivation

Causative: is obtained by doubling consonants : xrej "to go out" → xerrej "to make to go out" dxel "to enter" → dexxel "to make to enter, to introduce this is also the same as SA and fairly other arabic dialects and it should be pointed out, the same with most of the verb conjugation, most of the pronouns

Passive: This derivation is similar to berber and does not exist in classical arabic (the passive voice in classical arabic uses vowel changes and not verb derivation), it is obtained by prefixing the verb with t- / tt- / tn- / n- : qtel "to kill" → tneqtel "to be killed" šreb "to drink" → ttešreb "to be drunk".

well it's really absurd to say that this derivation is similar to Berber in this context, because its the same used in Egyptian dialect and other dialects as well, Egyptian dialect

1. shirib → tshirib
2. atal → t'itil,

this usage common in all arabic dialects with varying differences, stems from the reflexive form of the verb in Standard Arabic infa3al انفعل so قتل qatala is انقتل with the n replaced with t/ assimilation/ when it follows SA وحَّدَ wa77ada unify اتّحد ittahada became unified, furthermore, the original form of the reflexive is used in most of the dialects ie it is انقتل inktal, the example mentioned in the article is algiers dialect.

• • demonstratives

demonstratives mentioned hada(ya), hadu(ma). ('this, these') are mainly Algiers'dialect.

• final remark

after my comments I think it is clear that this remark spoken Arabic differs very substantially from written Arabic is exaggerated, arabic dialects do differ from SA but not very substantially vocabulary, syntactic norms, derivation and conjugation being all that of SA with minor differences, the real difference being the pronunciation and the loss of inflection. I should also note that there is a general tendency to hire algerian reporters by Middle Eastern tv companies mainly for the clarity of their pronunciation of SA; compared to other dialects, Egyptian dialect for example, the algerian dialects preserve all the original sounds of SA, while the former is defficient of at least 5 sounds. I'll take my time to work on this article, all suggestions are welcomed. I need also some help from Eastern Algeria because I am not well-acquainted with the varieties there. thanks--Sayih (talk) 21:58, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

=

LOL : Butt =ترمة that's right.... but I think the words that the linguist who made the list is looking for is "BUT" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.100.90.47 (talk) 03:35, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Comparison with other varieties of Arabic

I think it would be useful to describe the main differences and similarities between Algerian Arabic and other varieties of Arabic (in particular, of other varieties of Maghreb Arabic) , and/or to give parallel sample texts, word lists, or grammatical examples, which illustrate these difference and similarities. Apokrif (talk) 19:30, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Inaccuracies, sloppy style

It appears the article hasn't gotten much better since Sayih's 2007 remarks here. I've just added the copy-edit and original-research tags, which I think cover most of what's wrong -- for starters, the article could benefit from citing some actual linguistic research for the vast majority of its claims, beginning with the idea that "Algerian Arabic is a language". The page for Tunisian Arabic has its own issues, but notice how it states much-more-accurately that "Tunisian ... is a set of dialects of Maghrebi Arabic spoken in Tunisia".

And overall, this article seems to have been written by a proud Algerian who had little regard for (1) Wikipedia's style & content guidelines, (2) accurate/standard/consistent transliteration into English, and indeed (3) English grammar and conventions. I say the article needs to be overhauled entirely, using one of the more-attended-to Arabic-dialect articles as a structure model.

67.171.52.243 (talk) 02:03, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

French loanwords

Half of the so called french influence actually consists of words derived from the italian/sicilian language(s). 2001:9E8:D7D0:C900:D829:C9D6:1C88:5349 (talk) 20:54, 20 August 2024 (UTC)