Talk:Alistair MacLean

No Sources

The section on his style of writing contain no sources whatsoever, and much of it is written in an unprofessional manner. It might be original research for all we know. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.255.44.20 (talk) 23:53, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

How do you define original research in an area like literary criticism, rather than (say) theoretical physics? I think the section is insightful and well written (sadly not by me!) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.53.69.150 (talk) 10:30, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Captured and tortured claim

According to the biography of Alistair MacLean published about 1990,MacLean's stories (in his private life) about being captured and tortured by the Japanese were nothing more than the ravings of an alcoholic. The Royal Navy has no record of any of the ships that MacLean served on during World War Two as having been sunk. [00:58, 26 September 2003 203.98.50.21]

If you can give a precise source (ie, the author and title of the book), it would be worth mentioning that in the article. We could say something along the lines of "he claimed to have been captured and tortured by the Japanese, but so-and-so's biography casts serious doubt on this". --Camembert [01:08, 26 September 2003]

There's a book called "Alistair MacLean: A Biography of a Master Storyteller" by Jack Webster that apparently is the one you mean. Webster was/is also a Scot. I think it was published by a minor house but it is apparently available through Amazon or used-book outlets. Hayford Peirce 05:07, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I have been helpfully informed of the cite for this (page 191 of the Webster biography) and have amended the article accordingly. Wasted Time R 16:47, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Female characters in Guns of Navarone

For Hell's sake, there are NO female characters in "Guns of Navarone". Maybe there are some in film. But the author of this note has made a grave error. I don't have the time to correct that article, but somebody should. [Serial K] [17:36, 19 February 2006 80.221.18.26]

Perhaps you should reread the novel and the book I recall females in both although they played minor roles, I will add page references from the novels shortly (KingPodda) [04:03, 17 March 2006 70.250.118.132]

A while back I listened to the Guns of Navarone and then the Force 10 from Navarone on audiobooks (unabridged) and was very surprised to find that at the beginning of the second book one guy (the big Greek) is marrying a woman who helped in the escape (or something) from Navarone on the first book. While I am sure there were women in the book I certainly don't remember a woman taking a key part at the end of the story. Any takers who know the stories I would love to hear from you. A Taxed Mind (talk) 08:40, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

From memory, Force 10 refers early on to 'Maria, the girl who had shown them the way into the fortress of Navarone,' which makes no sense if you've just read the first novel. MacLean seems to have decided to write a sequel to the film rather than the novel, calculating that more people had seen the film than read the book. Paul Gallico put an author's note at the beginning of Beyond the Poseidon Adventure (published posthumously, I think) to say that he'd done something similar, opting for continuity with the then-famous film rather than the book. It is obviously a bad idea and implies disrespect for readers. Khamba Tendal (talk) 18:07, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Literary Criticism

Since this article contains a goodly bit of lit crit, I have added my own observations to some of the descriptions of the novels and literary techniques sections. Black Max 03:57, 7 August 2006 (UTC)Black Max

Unfortunately your additions to the "four periods" text include a number of errors. The first period has only one Communist- or Cold War- themed work, so your lumping them together in those terms is faulty. And MacLean himself acknowledged that The Last Frontier's greater philosophical ambition was poorly received. I don't know what you mean by melodrama here - WP's definition is a "work in which plot and action are emphasised in comparison to the more character-driven emphasis within a drama," which seems to describe all of MacLean's efforts equally. Satan Bug and Fear is the Key are in the second period, not the third. In the last period, there's no consensus that each novel is worse than the preceeding one; Partisans and San Andreas, for example, are both thought to be (minor) improvements over some before them. Finally, this kind of descriptive breakdown only works if written smoothly; incorporating all sorts of exceptions and asides, as you did, renders it incoherent. Wasted Time R 14:07, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, in this and your other edits, you overstate the importance of Communism in MacLean's work. How many books really have "a high-ranking Communist government official"? Only a few at most. Communism as an ideology is probably only touched on in The Last Frontier and a bit in The Satan Bug. For the most part, to MacLean both Communism and the Cold War were little more than a big, surrounding MacGuffin into which to set his plots. Wasted Time R 14:23, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Notes - Females as Damsels in Distress

Are all MacLean's female characters merely damsels in distress? I have not read all of his books, but that's certainly not true of the women in the early books. Mary and Heidi in Where Eagles Dare and the daughter in The Secret Ways are interesting, capable, and expert. Others, if not professional, are nonetheless interestingly (if briefly) characterized and even admirable. But the third sentence of the note seems to imply that MacLean only used his female characters as plot devices, and didn't bother to characterize them realistically if at all. At the very least it needs a phrase to indicate if it's describing the later efforts alone.

It is possible that this note arises simply from the overall decline in MacLeans' quality; women's characterization suffered, but so did everyone else's. If that's the case, perhaps the note (or the third sentence) should be removed entirely. Additionally, both it and the note on villains immediately afterward are opinion and not fact. - Nuranar 16:42, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Plot of Goodbye California copied by 1978 Superman film

The theme of causing a massive quake in California was anticipated in one of MacLean's book.s 16:43, 8 September 2007 (UTC)Enda80

Daviot

Although MacLean grew up in Daviot, it was Daviot in Invernesshire. The Daviot here links to a Daviot in Aberdeenshire, a different village. Creekman (talk) 17:50, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Sons

There were three sons, in order of age, Lachlan, Michael and Alistair Stuart, (Stuart being his middle name and used to differentiate him from his father, on adulthood he preferred to be known as "Ali"). I understand that it was his sceond son Michael, who was adopted, not the third Ail. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.234.207.226 (talk) 00:26, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Caravan Vaccares.JPG

Image:Caravan Vaccares.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 03:56, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Notes on Books

One of the notes is about the romantic interest in the books and says that "exceptions to the little-romance rule include one novel where the protagonist is rewarded for his labors by winning the love of the beautiful daughter of a millionaire." This is wrong, because:

• in Seawitch the two main characters are involved with Lord Worth's daughters;
• in The Golden Rendezvous Johnny Carter and Miss Beresford;
• in Floodgate Peter van Effen and Annemarie Meijer;

The rest of that point, regarding the past and the death of the protagonists' love interest, is also not true. RISadler (talk) 15:00, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I think this note ought to be removed completely. The "little-romance rule" isn't much of a rule anyway, since I thought of nine exceptions immediately. (Others I can't remember well enough.) If there are no objections, I will remove it shortly, and possibly tweak the "short on romance" statement under "Style of Writing" to be consistent. Nuranar (talk) 15:49, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Plagiarism Charge?

Current page includes the following baffler:

"Clive Cussler plagiarized (or paid homage to) MacLean's Ice Station Zebra in his Raise the Titanic!"

What the-? Plagiarism and homage are not synonymous, and the first is a serious charge to make against any writer. If the claim is that Raise the Titanic is a thinly-disguised rewrite of Ice Station Zebra, this is simply untrue. Mere plot similarities are not properly referred to as "plagiarism." If the claim is that Cussler uses some character name or makes some other playful reference to the earlier novel, yes, that would be "homage" -- but if it is worth mentioning at all, the specifics of the reference should be given. The current wording is unacceptable; it would be libelous if it weren't so clear the author doesn't even know what plagiarism means. Let's fix this.

71.220.206.47 (talk) 12:08, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Novels by Sam Llewellyn

I have removed the two novels by Sam Llewellyn from the list of UNACO books by other authors.

Storm Force from Navarone and Thunderbolt from Navarone are original novels by Sam Llewellyn that use characters and locations from MacLeans The Guns of Navarone and Force 10 From Navarone.

The UNACO novels are all based on movie outlines written by MacLean prior to his death. The Sam Llewellyn novels are not.

Mercenary Roadie (talk) 06:17, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Novels by Simon Gandolfi

I moved the three novels by Simon Gandolfi and created a new table labeled Golden Girl Series by other authors.

The three novels Golden Girl, Golden Web, and Golden Vengeance are not a part of the fictional UNACO story line.

Mercenary Roadie (talk) 07:57, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Date of birth

MacLean's date of birth is questioned on Swedish Wikipedia. To dates are forthcoming on different web pages, also on different Wikipedias, the 21st and 28th. I have found only one biography on the net; "Willis, Chris. 'Alistair (Stuart) MacLean.' British Mystery and Thriller Writers Since 1960. Ed. Gina MacDonald. Detroit: Gale, 2003. Dictionary of Literary Biography Vol. 276. Literature Resources from Gale. Web. 5 Apr. 2011."

Willis states April 28. I'm aware of the date April 21 on the tombstone. Could anyone shed some light on the subject? Rex Sueciæ ✎ 14:11, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Alcohol Consumption by Characters

Anyone noticed the excessive alcohol consumption in the books, particularly the ones towards the end of his career, like San Andrea. The characters seem to do nothing but sit around drinking whisky. (I wonder if this is some reflection on his own state of mind at the time.) But compare this to the non-drinking (total abstinence) lifestyle of the main male character (sorry can't remember his name) in the UNACO series. I wonder if that was something Alistair MacNeill devised when writing the books, or if it was in the plot lines laid down my MacLean before his death. A Taxed Mind (talk) 10:08, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Return To Writing: After Navarone

In 1967 MacLean formed a partnership with Geoffrey Reeve and Lewis Jenkins to make films for MacLean to write and Reeves to direct. They planned to make a sequel to Guns of Navarone only to discover Foreman had registered the title After Navarone. This led to a falling-out with Foreman, and a delay in the Navarone sequel.

Who is Foreman? Redpaul1 (talk) 09:41, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Just edited that para to clarify that it means Carl Foreman, producer-screenwriter of The Guns of Navarone. Khamba Tendal (talk) 17:56, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Mother tongue nonsense?

"He learned English as a second language after his mother tongue, Scottish Gaelic." Um... Born in Glasgow and raised in Inverness, the son of a Kirk Minister, and English was his second language? That sounds a bit... bullsh**ty, and the source is the LA Times. He was born in 1922, not 1822. His entry on the Scots-Gaelic wikiwand says nothing about Gaelic being his "first language", simply that he "spoke Gaelic", which is well established. I'm not familiar with wikiwand, and it's a circular source, so make of that what you will. Either way, deletion? Any objections? Update 09/03/22 - Have changed to "he spoke Scots-Gaelic". Robin J Thomson (talk) 18:22, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Gaelic name

" (Scottish Gaelic: Alasdair MacGill-Eain"

Why do we have a translation of his name into Gaelic? This is usually only done for people from non-English speaking countries.

Is there any evidence his birth was registered in this Gaelic name? If not, I think it should be deleted.

103.106.88.240 (talk) 04:46, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Agree. Robin J Thomson (talk) 01:47, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

For someone who was a monolingual Gaelic-speaker until attending school, it seems highly pertinent. I imagine the only effective option at the time was to record "a translation of his name into" English when registering the birth but that shouldn't require the active expunging from the article of his name in his native tongue. Mutt Lunker (talk) 10:37, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

He was born in Glasgow, raised in Inverness, the son of a Kirk minister, in 1922, not 1622. There's no way he was "a monolingual Gaelic speaker until attending school", unless he was kept locked in a cupboard at home. I don't know what you could mean by "the only effective option... when registering the birth" when he lived in a culture that spoke English, Scots dialects, and Gaelic.

I see that someone has added all this to the article, with some odd sources ("...didn't have a word of English is his vocabulary". P'fft).

How folk can believe this stuff is beyond me. They must think the West coast of Scotland was on the dark side of the moon. Robin J Thomson (talk) 19:08, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Where he happened to pop out does not grant him the power of speaking a language. He was not raised in Inverness but rural Daviot, pre A9, when a few Highland miles was much more significant. What bearing his father's profession has on his mother tongue is unclear. You do know there were and still are kirk services in Gaelic? It seems worthy of recording but not particularly surprising that he had no English until school, in an area where Gaelic was widely spoken at the time.

I simply meant that in official records, there would not have been an option to record his name in Gaelic. Not sure if your ref to the west coast of Scotland is to Glasgow (Daviot not being there).

I have less direct experience of later decades but Gaelic speakers who were monolingual on entering school were no rarity in the 70s and 80s (as a side note, in some cases they had lost their Gaelic by the time they left school). There were recruits in the First World War who had no English on conscription, including in the broad orbit of Inverness. It's perfectly credible and anyway, a reliable source confirms it (not sure how you can regard the Press and Journal as "odd") and that's what we go on. Mutt Lunker (talk) 13:52, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Allegedly written ...

Hi, that last entry of "Works" is a bit confusing. I found this source: https://books.google.no/books?id=F1I_EAAAQBAJ&pg=PT231&lpg=PT231&dq=Droga+powrotna+P%C5%82owego+Jima&source=bl&ots=ILC14uGOpv&sig=ACfU3U3gObfDBMVQ0vXpl_d1eyB96YacuA&hl=no&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiTmtX2qtb5AhWNqIsKHVCYClw4ChDoAXoECBkQAw#v=onepage&q=Droga%20powrotna%20P%C5%82owego%20Jima&f=false , which says somebody claimed that a certain novel was a translation of one written by AMcL, but it turned out it wasn't. I.e., it is a case of litterary fraud committed sometime by someone in Poland. The entry should be given a better explanation, or, even better, removed, as it has little relevance for the list of works and even less for the author. T 84.208.65.62 (talk) 21:21, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

sentence makes no sense

"He took part in Convoy PQ 17 on Royalist. this cannot be so if he joined Royalist in 1943 as PQ17 sailed in 1942 In 1944," Vicarage (talk) 17:13, 27 July 2023 (UTC)