Talk:Allô, allô

Requested move 20 January 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No move. There's no agreement that the change is necessary to disambiguate the articles. Cúchullain ^t/c 20:15, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

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Allô, Allô → Allô, Allô (song) – See this search in GBooks "Allô, Allô was", likewise also "Allô, Allô is" which indicates that the overwhelming subject of Allô, Allô in WP:RS is the TV show, a clear primary topic in any variation of spelling/accents, avoiding titling by WP:SMALLDETAILS, and the song needs to be marked out as (song). There's also 'Allo 'Allo (theme song) in the TV series article. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:33, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

• I don't see the relevance of "was" in the google link. This provides a single link, to this article. --AussieLegend (✉) 18:00, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

User:AussieLegend the BOOKS:"Allô, Allô was" is a way of searching Google Books (you've searched vanilla Google) to find usage in English language full sentences. As in this case BOOKS:"Allô, Allô was" here picks up the main subject 'Allo, 'Allo! or per WP:FRMOS redirect Allô, Allô (TV series). In ictu oculi (talk) 08:38, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

I still don't see the relevance of "was". Why not "can", "why" or "how"? I see from one response that I found with "Allô, Allô was" that the German "was" might be it, but I'm still not sure why we'd be adding "was". All I can think is warum nicht? --AussieLegend (✉) 09:01, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Try the search without "was" and see the difference, all sorts of non-English and non running text search results appear. However this isn't really the point, the point is that Allô, Allô should redirect to the TV series. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:39, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

So, searching for the actual name of this "barely notable French song", instead of the name with a random word added, doesn't find anything. I don't see the issue. --AussieLegend (✉) 15:49, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

it's simply a mechanism to work out how many references to the actual topic are in GBooks, please try "Allo Allo" + "television" instead In ictu oculi (talk) 16:57, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose I think. The nomination isn't clear. However, if the nomination is 'Allo 'Allo! vs "Allô, Allô" it seems to have been adequately dealt with using hatnotes. --Rob Sinden (talk) 09:37, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

-User:Robsinden The problem is once the reader looking for the TV series has got to the wrong article and can see the hatnote on the song their mobile has been whirring for 5 seconds while it downloads an article on a barely notable French song most readers didn't want and they're no nearer the TV series. It would be better if the song was marked (song) so it could be avoided. The TV series is clearly primary topic for all variants of Allô, Allô, however accented. So the hatnote only needs to be one way. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:39, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Still oppose, I'm afraid. The accents are sufficient to distinguish the two per WP:SMALLDETAILS. The TV series has never used the spelling "Allô, Allô" and I don't think you'll find a single reliable source that uses that spelling. --Rob Sinden (talk) 13:23, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

No, it's simply being helpful to Wikipedia's readers who might not know that when "Allô, Allô" is usually "Allô, Allô" in this case it isn't. We don't have to be helpful to readers, but here we can be. But we don't have to be, no. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:13, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

How likely is it that anyone typing the accented "Allô, Allô" will be looking for the TV series? --Rob Sinden (talk) 15:17, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

They may know French, or they may expect our article on the TV series to be spelled according to WP:FRMOS, or they may not type it, they may just see it in results. None of these are reasons not to have (song) on the song. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:26, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Why on earth would they expect a British TV series to follow WP:FRMOS? In any case, WP:SMALLDETAIL says "When such navigation aids are in place, small details are usually sufficient to distinguish topics", and gives the example of Airplane vs Airplane!. --Rob Sinden (talk) 15:43, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

That's an even smaller detail than the one I was going to point to. I was thinking of the many discussions that have been had about The Big Bang Theory. --AussieLegend (✉) 15:58, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Yes of course there are some articles which have unhelpful titles. And those are two well known examples. It doesn't mean we have to make every title as unhelpful as possible. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:54, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

• Comment @In ictu oculi: Please STOP changing the nomination after people have commented on it. It makes nonsense of mine and others' comments. We've had at least three completely different versions of it now [1][2][3] --Rob Sinden (talk) 15:22, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

I'm taking on board the requests you've made for a more detailed nom. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:24, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Well, please don't. That's very poor practice as it changes the context of the responses. --Rob Sinden (talk) 15:28, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Regarding this, there wasn't until you created a redirect a few minutes ago. We don't need to pre-emptively disambiguate between articles which don't exist yet. --Rob Sinden (talk) 15:27, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

It is quite common to respond to requests for an expanded nom, by expanding the nom, and NO NEED TO SHOUT, thank you. As for the redirect to the other song, the Allo Allo theme song does already exist as a large paragraph in the article, but frankly you're mistaken, even if the Allo Allo theme song hadn't been included in the article the purpose of these discussions is to assess what is notable in the real world and fill gaps in our coverage. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:51, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Editing your nom after it has been replied to, especially in the manner that you have done so, falls foul of WP:REDACT. I've seen such actions result in RFCs being closed prematurely. --AussieLegend (✉) 17:11, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose in essence. The simple fact someone can distinguish them by typing "allo" from "allô" makes enough natural disambiguation. If anything is to be performed is to create a disambiguation page at Allo, Allo. © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 20:47, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Oh well I suppose we can take comfort from the fact that pageviews of the singer's 5 songs vs the TV series suggest that not many readers are being misdirected to the wrong article. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:51, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

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