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Talk:All Along the Watchtower/GA1

< Talk:All Along the Watchtower
Latest comment: 2 years ago by BennyOnTheLoose in topic GA Review

GA Review

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Latest comment: 2 years ago70 comments3 people in discussion
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Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 07:41, 1 June 2022 (UTC)Reply


Good Article review progress box
Criteria: 1a. prose ( ) 1b. MoS ( ) 2a. ref layout ( ) 2b. cites WP:RS ( ) 2c. no WP:OR ( ) 2d. no WP:CV ( )
3a. broadness ( ) 3b. focus ( ) 4. neutral ( ) 5. stable ( ) 6a. free or tagged images ( ) 6b. pics relevant ( )
Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked   are unassessed

Just like I told you I would review this! --K. Peake 07:41, 1 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

Infobox and lead

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  • I'm not sure if it is appropriate to caption the artwork as the Netherlands single picture sleeve when that release is not mentioned anywhere
  • The B-side is not sourced anywhere in the body
  • It looks like the single might only have been released in the Netherlands and in Germany; it's not mentioned in UK/US discographies in books like Krogsgaard's Positively Bob Dylan: A Thirty-Year Discography, Concert and Recording Session Guide, 1960-1991, Hinton's Bob Dylan Complete discography (2006) or Leigh's Bob Dylan: Outlaw Blues (2020). I'll remove from the article, and restore it if a source is found. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 14:37, 1 June 2022 (UTC)Reply
  • Apart from not being in the sources above, it's also not on Olof Bjorner's site, or in Nogowski's Bob Dylan: A Descriptive, Critical Discography and Filmography, 1961-2020. Nogowski states that there were no singles from John Wesley Harding. If I knew where else to look for German or Dutch releases, I would. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:04, 2 June 2022 (UTC)Reply
  • Move the audio sample to being in composition and lyrical interpretation instead of the infobox
  • "which was first released on his eighth studio album," → "from his eighth studio album," and place the release year in brackets instead
  • The single release sentence should be the one directly after writing/production for the correct order
  • "contain twelve lines," → "contain 12 lines," per MOS:NUM
  • "Dylan has also released several" → "Dylan has released several" and add a sentence before this one about the critical reception
  • "and versions of the song are included on several of his" → "and versions of the song are included on some of his" to be less repetitive
  • Add a sentence after the above one providing background on why Hendrix covered Dylan's work
  • Also, you could do with adding another one before the release and reception here about the musical style of the cover
  • Are you sure the release was really six months later?
  • Rather than top 20 single, shouldn't you write that it reached the top 20 on the US Billboard Hot 100?
  • The original 48th ranking on the greatest songs of all time is not sourced
In-line source is stated for the Rolling Stone top 500 list and its year; there was the 2004 list and the 2021 list, both with in-line citations. ErnestKrause (talk) 18:47, 1 June 2022 (UTC)Reply
I looked and only the 40th ranking is listed in the body, so you need to mention both. --K. Peake 08:07, 2 June 2022 (UTC)Reply
  • "He has performed "All Along the Watchtower" live more than any of his other songs," → "The singer has performed the song live more than any of his other ones," but none of this sentence appears to be sourced in the body
  • Amended text. It's based on "critic Michael Gray noted that this is the most often performed of all of Dylan's songs.[68] According to Dylan's own website, by May 2022 he had performed the song 2,268 times.[69]" which may need rewording to clarify. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 14:59, 1 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

Bob Dylan original version

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Background and recording

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  • "was the second single from the album, released on" → "was released as the second single from the album on" and this sentence should be moved somewhere else, as the sub-section is background and recording

Composition and lyrical interpretation

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  • Per the title writing composition first, shouldn't the music sub-section come before the lyrics one?
Lyrics
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  • "which Financial Times writer Dan Einac" → "which the Financial Times writer Dan Einac"
  • Pipe CBS to CBS Records International
  • "commensurate with his status."" → "commensurate with his status"." per MOS:QUOTE
  • "to give him his due."" → "to give him his due"."
  • "In the New York Times, Robert Palmer expressed his opinion that as" → "In The New York Times, Robert Palmer expressed his opinion that" with the wikilink and pipe
  • Pipe balladeer to Sentimental ballad
  • "chronological time: "at the" → "chronological time, noting "at the"
  • "the myth began again."" → "the myth began again"."
  • "in "Watchtower" as" → "in the song as"
  • "own (doom-laden) blanks."" → "own (doom-laden) blanks"."

Music

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  • "The composition of the music of the song" → "The music of the song"
  • "who wrote that "The song's" → "who writes, "The song's"
  • "of two pitches"." → "of two pitches."" per MOS:QUOTE on full sentences
  • "blues influence in the song which" → "blues influence in the song, which" with the wikilink
  • "Zak compares Dylan's lyrics in "Watchtower"" → "He compares Dylan's lyrics in the song"
  • "Johnson's "Me and the Devil Blues" stating" → "Johnson's "Me and the Devil Blues" (1938), stating"

Critical reception

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  • I would suggest retitling this to Release and reception, then you can move the single release date to the start of the sub-section
  • "of The Los Angeles Times wrote" → "of the Los Angeles Times wrote"
  • "but felt the recording of the song seemed" → "but felt the recording seems"
  • Pipe Bucks Examiner to Buckinghamshire Examiner
  • ", and also by Troy Irvine of" → "This sentiment was shared by Troy Irvine of"
  • "Dylan, McCoy and Buttrey," → "Dylan, McCoy, and Buttrey,"
  • "three succinct verses"" → "three succinct verses"."
  • "rated it 31st in" → "listed the song 31st in"

The Jimi Hendrix experience version

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  • None of the B-sides or genres listed are sourced in the prose
Added into prose using Shapiro book for citation and linking to Wikipedia article for B-side USA version; British version is quoted on jacket image featured in Infobox (can do formal citation if needed). ErnestKrause (talk) 19:11, 1 June 2022 (UTC)Reply
You forgot to pipe B-side to A-side and B-side, unlike the above text seems to imply. --K. Peake 08:07, 2 June 2022 (UTC)Reply
Current version reads: "issued the song as a single on September 2, 1968 with the B-side featuring "Burning of the Midnight Lamp"...". Is that sufficient to identify it? ErnestKrause (talk) 16:19, 4 June 2022 (UTC)Reply
Enhanced the wording. ErnestKrause (talk) 18:53, 1 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

Music

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  • Shouldn't the blues influences be mentioned first since genre-related text is best to start music areas?
  • "but it involves adding a" → "involving adding a"
  • "sense of tumult"." → "sense of tumult."" per MOS:QUOTE on full sentences
  • Second para looks good!
  • "written on both the Dylan and the Hendrix versions" → "written of both the Dylan and Hendrix versions"
  • "style of Muddy Waters stating:" → "style of Muddy Waters, stating:"

Recording

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  • Any date specified for the first day?
  • "an additional twelve-string guitar." → "an additional 12-string guitar." per MOS:NUM
  • Pipe Rolling Stones to The Rolling Stones
  • Pipe mixed to Audio mixing (recorded music)
  • Specify the year of the mixing date
  • Wikilink overdubbing
  • None of the info is sourced from the American Songwriter ref

Release, charts, and certifications

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Impact of the Hendrix recording on Dylan's performances

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  • "In the booklet accompanying his" → "In the booklet accompanying his 1985"
  • The Band → the Band per MOS:THEMUSIC on all occasions, unless starting a sentence
  • Shouldn't you introduce the tour as eponymous or something like that to be specific about its title in prose?
  • "Dylan " practically conceded" → "Dylan "practically conceded" to avoid excess spacing
  • "wrote that "In effect," → "wrote: "In effect,"
  • "of his own song"." → "of his own song."" per MOS:QUOTE on full sentences
  • "and his delivery of lyrics more" → "and his delivery of lyrics become more"
  • "as we can know."" → "as we can know"."
  • "Most Likely You Go Your Way (And I'll Go Mine)" → "Most Likely You Go Your Way and I'll Go Mine" with the wikilink
  • Pipe the Forum to Kia Forum
  • None of the info is sourced from the Ultimate Classic Rock ref
  • "by May 2022 he" → "by November 2018, he" per the source
  • "goes on to say that "The" → "goes on to say, "The"
  • Even though the Grateful Dead covering the song is sourced, the first verse part is not

Legacy

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  • "by dozens of artists including" → "by dozens of artists, including"
  • "on White Music (1978), U2 on" → "on White Music (1978), and U2 on"
  • Italicise Rolling Stone and mention both lists
"both lists":
  • "is included at" → "was included at"
  • "Jimi Hendrix's version of" → "His version of"
  • Pipe Billboard to Billboard (magazine)
  • "of the 20 greatest Jimi Hendrix songs," → "of the 20 greatest Hendrix songs,"
  • "of the 10 greatest Jimi Hendrix songs." → "of his 10 greatest songs."
  • "in dozens of films including" → "in dozens of films, including" also adding a comma after Watchmen

Official releases on Bob Dylan albums

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  • Pipe MTV Unplugged to MTV Unplugged (Bob Dylan album)
  • Neil Young should only be wikilinked on the first instance
  • The Original Mono Recordings should only be wikilinked on the first instance

Official releases on Jimi Hendrix albums

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  • Good

References

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  • Copyvio score looks too high at an estimated 81.2%; cut down the level of direct quoting to fix this
  • After looking at this in some detail, it appears that the larger portion of this is from mirror sites which have been copying the Wikipedia article sometimes with explicit attribution and sometimes without. The copyvio app gives a general feedback percentage based on aggregate similarity which I do not think is due to defects in the Wikipedia article. They are mirror sites which are copying freely from Wikipedia as an open source. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:48, 3 June 2022 (UTC)Reply
  • Given that the American Songwriter article was only published three months ago, I think it's very possible to argue that there was an element of backwards-copying (WP:BACKWARDSCOPY) involved, if one looks at a version of the Wikipedia article from just before that time period. Given that, I've replaced that source with Van Ronk's book, to avoid possible problems with WP:CIRCULAR. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:52, 6 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

Citations

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Cites currently updated for entire list below. Should all be integrated. ErnestKrause (talk) 20:27, 3 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

  • Wikilink Financial Times on ref 17
  • Refs 18 and 23 are duplicates of ref 9
  • pp. 130–1 → pp. 130–131 on ref 20
  • Refs 22, 42 and 64 are duplicates of ref 21
  • Author-link Robert Palmer (writer) and wikilink The New York Times on ref 24
  • Ref 27 is a duplicate of ref 2
  • The American Songwriter → American Songwriter on ref 30 with the wikilink
  • Wikilink Los Angeles Times on ref 32
  • Pipe Bucks Examiner to Buckinghamshire Examiner on ref 33
  • Ref 36 is a duplicate of ref 5
  • Author-link Alexis Petridis and wikilink The Guardian on ref 37
  • Refs 41, 48 and 49 are duplicates of ref 39
  • Refs 44 and 45 are duplicates of ref 43
  • Remove wikilink on American Songwriter for ref 51
  • Refs 55 and 81 are duplicates of ref 51
  • Pipe Fort Lauderdale Sun Sentinel to Sun-Sentinel on ref 58
  • Refs 61, 62, 68, 71 and 73 are duplicates of ref 10
  • Ref 66 is a duplicate of ref 65
  • Wikilink Ultimate Classic Rock on ref 67
  • Wikilink Rolling Stone on ref 76
  • Wikilink Guitar World on ref 78

Bibliography

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All of the links below now incorporated; italic not allowed in param fields. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

Italic not allowed in param fields. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)Reply
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  • Good

Final comments and verdict

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  • That was a pretty thorough review which both co-nominators appreciate. It may take a few more days to complete everything, and we've just located what looks like a cover sleeve for the singles release. It would be nice to do all of these updates in appreciation of your thorough comments. ErnestKrause (talk) 13:55, 3 June 2022 (UTC)Reply
I've made amendments to address the points about what the audio sample illustrates of the song, a caption for the certifications table and linkin for B-side. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:11, 6 June 2022 (UTC)Reply
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