Talk:All Saints' Church, Stand

Stand Church

This church is almost universally known locally as 'Stand Church' and correct name is 'All Saints' Church, Stand'[1] or 'All Saints' Church, Stand, Whitefield' [2] but definitely not 'All Saints' Church, Whitefield'. I'm pretty sure that on the sign outside it says 'All Saints' Church, Stand'. Would anyone object if I changed the article name to 'All Saints' Church, Stand'? Richerman (talk) 16:44, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Why can't we just call it "Stand Church", as most people do, and then note the full name in the lead section once we've figured out what it is? Take a look at Manchester Cathedral, for example. I'm not GSearching to prove that "Stand Church" is the most common name because it is a particularly awkward search string. However, I'm fairly sure that we have a bunch of regulars here who can confirm it. (I'll get back to you about the correct full name when the vicar replies to my query). - Sitush (talk) 17:47, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

I think I'd call it All Saint's Church, Stand and mention in the first sentence that it is commonly known as Stand Church.

All Saint's Church, commonly called Stand Church is an active Anglican parish church in ...... etc. You could also create a redirect from Stand Church. J3Mrs (talk) 18:09, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Yep, that was the way I was thinking of doing it. Richerman (talk) 18:30, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

I've been and looked at the sign today and it says 'Parish Church of All Saints Stand' but I see J3Mrs has been and gone and done it already :) Richerman (talk) 15:50, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Original location

I've been reading a local book from 1887 that suggests the original location for the All Saints' design was intended to be Farnworth and that which is now at St John the Evangelist's Church, Farnworth was intended for Stand. The vicar of Bolton, J. Slade, asked to have the designs swapped because he thought the design now at Stand would be too large for the current and likely future congregation at Farnworth. This decision apparently upset Benjamin Rawson, occupant of Darley Hall in Farnworth and a noted local chemical manufacturer who had begun his business at the charmingly-named Vitriol Houses. Rawson seems to have been an awkward so-and-so generally; in this instance, he had wanted to have a substantial church on his estate and donated land for that purpose, then retracted the donation when it turned out the church wouldn't be quite so substantial. He did offer another plot, where the church now stands and the foundation stone of which he laid.

Now, there is a fly in this ointment. If we believe our article, which relies on Stand's own website, then the foundation stone at Stand was laid in 1821. The relevant bit of the book - Barton, Benjamin Thomas (1887). History of Farnworth and Kersley (sic). Bolton: The Daily Chronicle. - begins "About the year 1823 a movement was set on foot for the erection of a church at Farnworth ..."

Is the "about" sufficiently vague to overcome the date of laying the foundation stone? The general drift of the story is such that it seems plausible. Barton's earlier book - Historical Gleanings of Bolton and district (1882) - mentions much of what is in the later work. It seems that the 1882 book was a compilation of his columns on local history in the newspaper, together with letters published in response to them, and that the later work is in part a distillation of that information.

An aside: I can see a whole lot of stubby local history items here - the Hall (once owned by Hargreaves of Hick, Hargreaves), Rawson, Farnworth Fever Hospital (built on the Hall grounds), the very ornate Manchester and Bolton Railway bridge giving access to the Hall is a listed structure, etc. The problem is, they will almost certainly for ever remain stubs. What is the rule re: Crown copyright and Victorian 6"/mile maps? Sitush (talk) 11:49, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

I think it's possible, the plans for St George's Church, Tyldesley were inadvertently exchanged for the Church of St George in Chorley which was built a year later. The plans would have been available before work started and a change of site in Farnworth might have caused a delay in starting work. The Vicar of Bolton, James Slade was an influential person in the town so I think it's feasible. Slade's article said he oversaw the building of several churches including St John's. I could of course be completely wrong. J3Mrs (talk) 13:34, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Crown copyright on maps only lasts for 50 years (see: [3]) so you're safe using Victorian ones. Perhaps you could just go with "early 1820s". BTW Sitush, if you ever want to offload that archive of Whitefield stuff I foisted on you I was thinking that the Prestwich and Whitefield Heritage Society would probably be interested in it. Richerman (talk) 21:53, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, both. Richerman, I've already mentioned the newspaper cuttings to Peter Roughan, who is heavily involved with PWHS and related things. I'm still ploughing through them myself. I've not found a mention of me yet, which might indicate a degree of discernment in their selection! - Sitush (talk) 08:36, 22 May 2015 (UTC)