Talk:Allan Pinkerton/Archive 1

Archive 1

The Baltimore Plot

There really should be a Wikipedia page on The Baltimore Plot. Google the title and you will find some good sources about it - like http://www.pddoc.com/skedaddle/articles/1861_assassination_plot.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryan Gardner (talk • contribs) 02:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Pinkerton's position

I'm confused as to what Pinkerton's position was. The article claims he was chief of the Union Intelligence Service (and refers to the service as a proper noun, ie "Intelligence Service") yet I can find no mention of there ever being a so-called Intelligence Service, not even in the Union Army. It also mentions that he was succeeded by Lafayette Baker, and Baker's article confirms the Union Intelligence Service (yet does not mention Pinkerton). A search (albeit slightly in haste) of google revealed little to no mention of a Union Intelligence Service. The wikipedia article American Civil War spies says he headed the Federal Secret Service, but the Secret Service article does not mention him whatsoever. In fact, it does reveal a slight inconsistency (it states that the service was created in 1860, but the Directors List starts in 1865) within the secret service article. However, it does provide enough information to say that the service was established under the US Department of the Treasury, so that effectively eliminates Pinkerton as its head (US ARMY does not mesh with US Treasury). The Civil War Spies article also conflicts with Baker, stating he was chief of War Department detectives. So where the heck is Pinkerton? Something in this article must be a fallacy, though unintentional. TheMadjester — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.123.187.114 (talk) 17:55, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

If I remember correctly from Frank Morn's book, The Eye that Never Sleeps, Pinkerton's self-promotion may have resulted in exaggerated, or at least unverifiable, claims of how central his role was.Bobanny 18:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I was at the Boston Public Library's exhibition of Matthew Brady daguerreotypes from the Civil War recently, and there is one of Pinkerton with Lincoln, whose caption mentions something about an intelligence service (I can't remember the exact name). But as mentioned above, given that the source of that material was not apparent, I don't know if this information is accurate. A.Feldman (talk) 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Pinkerton's tenure as "director of the intelligence service," is that is what he was, ended with the removal of General McClellan as commander of the Union Army of the Potomac. For more on an effective intelligence service that Grant used in the Western theater and then in the East ,see Grant's Secret Service: The Intelligence War from Belmont to Appomattox by William B. Feis. Thomas R. Fasulo (talk) 23:41, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Mr. Pinkerton's Book

The article does not mention Allan Pinkerton's book 'Strikers, communists, tramps and detectives' published in the year +1,878 Gregorian Calendar. I will add this once I have OCR-ed the book and placed it on the 'net. --- Desertphile June 5 2006 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.82.9.74 (talk) 16:46, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I added a book list and some links to online versions, but not that one. I have read it though, and it leaves no doubt about his views towards unions. Definately helped prepare the ground for J. Edgar Hoover's hysterical anti-communism as well as pioneered the use of mass media for self promotion that Hoover would adopt. An online version of that one would be great.Bobanny 18:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup

I looked into this article after last night's Final Jeopardy! on Pinkerton's invention of the mug shot as seen on posters in the Old West (a fact worthy of mention, but not mentioned, in the article). I did some cleanup on the article and added two template tags: one for POV in the labor bit (though the problem may really just be with unencyclopedic wording: major force against the young labor movement... This effort against labor tarnished the image of the Pinkertons for years. They always maintained the high moral standards established by their founder, but many people began to view them as an arm of big business") and another nearby asking for a source citation ("Many labor sympathizers accused the Pinkertons..."—which labor sympathizers, for example?). Also, I note that the book Claude Melnotte as a Detective is listed twice in the booklist; should the second mention be deleted? Having done no research on this subject, I leave it to others who are active on this article to address the POV concerns by rewording and adding detail. Thanks. Robert K S 15:25, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

First detective agency

How can it be that Pinkerton is the founder of the first detective agency? He founded it somewhere around 1850. Eugène François Vidocq founded one in France in 1833 which is about 20 years earlier. At that time Pinkerton was still a boy and living in Europe. -- CecilK 06:52, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Since CecilK's 2007 comment, the lead has been changed to say first detective agency in the United States; however, at p. 25 of Jame's Horan's book The Pinkerton's: The Detective Dynasty That Made History (1969 2d printing), notes that in addition to Vidocq's 1832 agency, two New Orleans police officers opened an agency in 1846. Horan says this is contrary to some historian's claims that Pinkerton's was the first in the world. I am removing the claim that it was first in the United States based on the information he provides on the New Orleans' agency. IMHO (talk) 01:59, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Pinkerton in Popular culture and his grave stone

I ended up in this page after reading the comic book 'Lucky Luke versus Pinkerton' by Morris, ISBN 978 2 88471 286 6. It might be nice to mention this book in the article.

Another idea to add: I suspect a relation between the logo of Pinkertons company (a wide-open eye with the words We Never Sleep) and his grave stone, resembling an obelisk with a piramid on the top. Since that symbol often also portrays a wide-open eye. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.207.132.174 (talk) 18:42, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Military intelligence blunders?

His Civil War history does seem rather well-laundered. McClellan's much-criticized record in the Peninsula Campaign has been largely attributed to Pinkerton's vastly exaggerated estimates of Confederate troop-strength, causing McClellan to adapt his plans to cope with an imaginary enemy several times its real size. Valetude (talk) 23:13, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Verification... ?

- The "Union Intelligence Service" ?
- "Forerunner/predecessor of the US Secret Service" ?

A source (or two) would be nice... - ^theWOLFchild 19:22, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

I may be related

My name is Mitchell Beau Pinkerton I am a tradesman in Australia, I was born NSW 2002 203.30.3.253 (talk) 11:31, 25 July 2022 (UTC)