Talk:Allegheny station (Broad Street Line)

Requested move 19 July 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Closed according to Cuchullain's proposal below. This seems to have consensus of 2:1 compared with the SEPTA option, and meets WP:CONCISE.

For clarity, this means, if I understand correctly:

• Allegheny station (Broad Street Line) → unchanged
• Girard station (Broad Street Line) → unchanged
• North Philadelphia station (SEPTA Broad Street Line) → North Philadelphia station (Broad Street Line)
• Spring Garden station (SEPTA Broad Street Line) → Spring Garden station (Broad Street Line)
• 34th Street station (Market–Frankford Line) → unchanged
• 40th Street station (Market–Frankford Line) → unchanged
• 63rd Street station (SEPTA Market–Frankford Line) → 63rd Street station (Market–Frankford Line)
• Allegheny station (SEPTA Market–Frankford Line) → Allegheny station (Market–Frankford Line)
• Girard station (SEPTA Market–Frankford Line) → Girard station (Market–Frankford Line)
• Spring Garden station (SEPTA Market–Frankford Line) → Spring Garden station (Market–Frankford Line)

Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 13:01, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

---

• Allegheny station (Broad Street Line) → ?
• Girard station (Broad Street Line) → ?
• North Philadelphia station (SEPTA Broad Street Line) → ?
• Spring Garden station (SEPTA Broad Street Line) → ?
• 34th Street station (Market–Frankford Line) → ?
• 40th Street station (Market–Frankford Line) → ?
• 63rd Street station (SEPTA Market–Frankford Line) → ?
• Allegheny station (SEPTA Market–Frankford Line) → ?
• Girard station (SEPTA Market–Frankford Line) → ?
• Spring Garden station (SEPTA Market–Frankford Line) → ?

– We need consistent disambiguators here. For some background, per WP:USSTATION, most SEPTA stations that require it are disambiguated by system - ie, (SEPTA) - but in some cases like these, SEPTA has multiple stations of one name, so we must disambiguate by line. In many areas, we just use whatever the line's article uses; in these cases that would be Broad Street Line and Market–Frankford Line. In a lengthy discussion here, Dream out loud suggested using "SEPTA Broad Street Line" and "SEPTA Market–Frankford Line" instead. This got some support, but it hasn't been consistently implemented, and both are still in use. This RM is an attempt to settle that. My personal preference is for the more concise disambiguators (XXX YYY Line), but I'm fine with (SEPTA XXX YYY Line) so long as it's consistent. Also pinging @Epicgenius, Secondarywaltz, and Fruhvvb: who participated in the previous discussions. Cúchullain ^t/c 17:35, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

I, Epicgenius propose:

• Allegheny station (Broad Street Line) → Allegheny station (SEPTA Broad Street Line)
• Girard station (Broad Street Line) → Girard station (SEPTA Broad Street Line)
• North Philadelphia station (SEPTA Broad Street Line) → no change
• Spring Garden station (SEPTA Broad Street Line) → no change
• 34th Street station (Market–Frankford Line) → 34th Street station (SEPTA Market–Frankford Line)
• 40th Street station (Market–Frankford Line) → 40th Street station (SEPTA Market–Frankford Line)
• 63rd Street station (SEPTA Market–Frankford Line) → no change
• Allegheny station (SEPTA Market–Frankford Line) → no change
• Girard station (SEPTA Market–Frankford Line) → no change
• Spring Garden station (SEPTA Market–Frankford Line) → no change

The reason I propose the naming format "SEPTA XXX Line"—even though the line articles are located at titles in the XXX Line format, i.e. Broad Street Line and Market–Frankford Line—is because we have a system disambiguator just in case people are confused which system it's in. Disambiguation by city won't do because the city doesn't operate the lines, SEPTA does. Also, this help prevents against situations like Allegheny station (SEPTA), where, in addition to the Broad Street and Market-Frankford Lines stations, we also have Allegheny station (SEPTA Regional Rail) with the "SEPTA XXX" format. I also propose that the shortened version of each page name should be created and redirected to the respective articles, e.g. 63rd Street station (SEPTA Market–Frankford Line) to 63rd Street station (Market–Frankford Line). —Kylo Ren (talk) 20:54, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Yes, really the only two options for these articles is Broad Street Line/Market–Frankford Line vs. SEPTA Broad Street Line/SEPTA Market–Frankford Line. One is more concise and uses the article name, while the other makes clear it's a SEPTA line. And yes, we should definitely have redirects from both formats.--Cúchullain ^t/c 21:22, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Yeah. I prefer the SEPTA way, but basically... I agree with everything else you said above (the redirects from either format, as well as consistency). Kylo Ren (talk) 21:41, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

If we include "SEPTA" in the disambiguator, we also have to consider the naming conventions for the Norristown High Speed Line stations (i.e. Haverford station (SEPTA Norristown High Speed Line)). "SEPTA" is not actually part of the line names and I think it could be omitted from the disambiguator for the above mentioned articles. For Regional Rail and trolley articles, then "SEPTA" should be included. –Dream out loud (talk) 16:28, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

To make things clearer for the closer, perhaps we could state our preference. I support moving all to (Market–Frankford Line) and (Broad Street Line) as the nominator. This is more WP:CONCISE and in line with the actual line names as DOL says above.--Cúchullain ^t/c 19:47, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

No, that goes against the new naming conventions at WP:USSTATION. Disambiguators are only to be used when there are multiple articles with the same name, and it has nothing to do with WP:CONCISE. –Dream out loud (talk) 07:42, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

You misunderstand me. I meant the articles listed in this RM - the ones requiring disambiguation by line per USSTATION. IE, my vote is that we don't add "SEPTA" in front of the line name in the disambiguator, as it's obviously less concise and isn't part of the line name.--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:28, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

My apologies, I did misunderstand. In that case, I fully agree with your proposal. Same for all the disambiguated Norristown High Speed Line stations. –Dream out loud (talk) 14:29, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.